Theory: Whatever happened, will STILL happen

[Ricardus Alpert]

After reading the various snippets and set reports, I've come to believe that Whatever happened in our time line, will also happen in the alternate time line. Consider the following: Kate is present for Claire giving birth to Aaron and Ethan is the doctor at the hospital, of all people. Now, the reports regarding "Dr. Linus" suggest that Ben is living off the island as a teacher, but is still Alex's adoptive father. (Considering the fact they wanted Mira Furlan to come back, I think it's very likely he would have taken Alex from Danielle in this time-line as well.) I think there's a very fair chance that we're going to see Ben with Annie.

But here's the thing- The set reports indicate that Keamy and Omar will appear in "Dr. Linus" as well. We don't know in what capacity, but I'm willing to bet Keamy will kill Alex in this time- line too. As someone who was initially against alternate time lines, I find them now to be a very compelling concept, mostly because of the idea that the circumstances may change, but whatever happened to our characters in the original time- line will still happen, and I think most of them will realize they were better off on the island.

[jpventoso]

Well, I remember that Lindelof once said (I think it was on a season 3 or 4 commentary), that they will never do a full reset because that invalidates some or all the previous stories we watched, so the whole "course-correcting" stuff will always make a similar chain of events.
So I imagine that even when Jack changed some part of the story with the bomb, the "universe" (or the island?) will perform its course-correct once again by killing Alex, and now that you mention Keamy it would be nice if he kills her again somehow.
I think that maybe the events would seem "different" on the beggining of S6, but the course-correcting will lead them back to the island somehow?
Good toughts!

[Strokedown]

Originally Posted by jpventoso

Well, I remember that Lindelof once said (I think it was on a season 3 or 4 commentary), that they will never do a full reset because that invalidates some or all the previous stories we watched, so the whole "course-correcting" stuff will always make a similar chain of events.
So I imagine that even when Jack changed some part of the story with the bomb, the "universe" (or the island?) will perform its course-correct once again by killing Alex, and now that you mention Keamy it would be nice if he kills her again somehow.
I think that maybe the events would seem "different" on the beggining of S6, but the course-correcting will lead them back to the island somehow?
Good toughts!

I agree with this almost completely, but there is one thing that I think could explain a huge amount of the show. The alternate universe will be different at first, just like you said, but it will end up almost the same, but with one big difference. I have a theory with two parts about Season 6:

1.) Remember when Jacob said "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress." What he is really saying is that What Is Supposed To Happen, Will Happen. In other words, the end cannot be changed, and that it will happen regardless of the events in-between.

2.) The reason why the alternate timeline is created is because of two course corrections, one a very large course correction and one a smaller course correction. Also, the island is the place where these timelines converge.

Remember when Faraday first said WHH, he said that they couldn't change what already happened? Then, later, he said that if they did something as big as detonate a hydrogen bomb, they could change the timeline? I think that the reason that they apparently couldn't change what already happened is because any change they made was small and easily course-corrected so that whatever is supposed to happen will happen. But when the hydrogen bomb exploded, something happened that made it impossible for what's supposed to happen to happen. I think that this "something" is the death of all of the 77'ers. That would explain why Richard said that the 77'ers are dead. This is what I believe to be the smaller course correction; the island has to use an alternate timeline so that the '77ers can get back to the '07 island.

However, that does not explain why Hurley, Jack, Kate, and Sayid were sent back to 1977 in the first place. I believe that something happened (likely Locke's death) that wasn't supposed to happen and that couldn't be fixed without the creation of another timeline. So the universe had to find a way to create another timeline in which Locke never died so that Locke can return to the island alive. The universe creates this timeline by bringing Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley back to the island and having them blow up the hydrogen bomb.

So the universe, because of course correction, creates another timeline in which the plane never crashed. In this timeline, they will likely either remember everything that happened in the original timeline or they will remember everything over time. If they don't remember what happened in the original timeline, then they will remember once they are brought to the island (possibly through the Temple?). During the timeline, the events that happen don't matter. The only thing that does matter is that they will return to the '07 island with Locke (or who/whatever is supposed to come back with them because of the larger course correction) so that they all can do whatever it is they're supposed to do.

I'm very positive that this (or something very similar) will happen. If anyone can see any big flaws with this theory, or anything that could support this theory, please let me know.

[New Otherton]

I certainly hope it doesn't pan out this way. it would be a completely pointless exercise to show us every major even we've witnessed on the show simply happening again off island in a new timeline.

[jpventoso]

Nice theory, I generally agree with it.
A couple of toughts:

Just after Faraday talks about the concept of "variables" or free will, he's shot by his mother as supposed in the first place. So in that case it seems that there's no free will at all.
Now, another attempt of free will happened with Jack and the bomb. He detonated it to revert things back and change the original timeline. He says, "put things back the way they were supposed to be". Jacks believes that the crash altered the supposed chain of events. But, on the other hand, we saw Jacob watching the losties at different times of their lives.

So the question is, which way were things supposed to be? Did the bomb changed the events or the bomb is part of the current chain of events?



Now that you mention the scene when Richard says that he watched the 77'ers die, I was thinking a little more about it. Let's suppose we got the two timelines:

- Original timeline (Hatch, Oceanic crash, no bomb)
- Alternate timeline (Bomb, no hatch, no crash)

When Richard said that to Sun, I thought "what was that supposed to mean?". Now I'm thinking that if we got two timelines, that means that the Richard-Sun scene happened on the alternate timeline, right? Because Jack, Kate, etc. died because of the bomb. Maybe Sun, Ben and the rest ended up crashing on the alternate timeline already.
But it's a little confusing anyway, because that means that Locke is dead in the alternate timeline as a consequence of Ben killing him on the original timeline...



The only way that I can figure out to avoid this contradiction is that the two timelines are the same. The bomb IS the (original) incident. So, in that case, there's no free will.

Anyway, it seems to be more complicated than that, because of the spoilers we've heard about the first episodes of S6...

[Strokedown]

Originally Posted by jpventoso

Nice theory, I generally agree with it.
A couple of toughts:

Just after Faraday talks about the concept of "variables" or free will, he's shot by his mother as supposed in the first place. So in that case it seems that there's no free will at all.
Now, another attempt of free will happened with Jack and the bomb. He detonated it to revert things back and change the original timeline. He says, "put things back the way they were supposed to be". Jacks believes that the crash altered the supposed chain of events. But, on the other hand, we saw Jacob watching the losties at different times of their lives.

So the question is, which way were things supposed to be? Did the bomb changed the events or the bomb is part of the current chain of events?



Now that you mention the scene when Richard says that he watched the 77'ers die, I was thinking a little more about it. Let's suppose we got the two timelines:

- Original timeline (Hatch, Oceanic crash, no bomb)
- Alternate timeline (Bomb, no hatch, no crash)

When Richard said that to Sun, I thought "what was that supposed to mean?". Now I'm thinking that if we got two timelines, that means that the Richard-Sun scene happened on the alternate timeline, right? Because Jack, Kate, etc. died because of the bomb. Maybe Sun, Ben and the rest ended up crashing on the alternate timeline already.
But it's a little confusing anyway, because that means that Locke is dead in the alternate timeline as a consequence of Ben killing him on the original timeline...



The only way that I can figure out to avoid this contradiction is that the two timelines are the same. The bomb IS the (original) incident. So, in that case, there's no free will.

Anyway, it seems to be more complicated than that, because of the spoilers we've heard about the first episodes of S6...

The bomb caused nothing to change on the island because the bomb was the incident, as you said. The reason the alternate timeline is created is because the '77ers died when the bomb exploded, not because they changed time. Faraday was right when he said "What Happened, Happened". He just didn't take the possibility of an alternate universe into account.

Sun, Ben, and the others on the island in '07 are in the first timeline (assuming the island isn't free of a timeline). When Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, etc., return to the island from the other timeline, one of three things will happen:

1.) They will be transported to the original timeline when they crash on the island.

2.) They will crash on the island, but it will be different because they're still in the second timeline. Somehow (possibly through the Temple or "Lighthouse"?), they will have to go back to the original timeline.

3.) Nothing will happen (The Island is free of a timeline).

I think that the first option is most likely, the second is fairly likely, and the third one isn't too likely. But who knows, TPTB have surprised us before.

[boyd18]

Richard says he watched the 77 losties die...if thats true and the 77 losties do end up dieing, than its likely not the bomb that kills them...unless of course, Richard is not only ageless, but indestructible too...because anybody within a few hundred feet of the swan site would probably be vaporized...

[Strokedown]

Originally Posted by boyd18

Richard says he watched the 77 losties die...if thats true and the 77 losties do end up dieing, than its likely not the bomb that kills them...unless of course, Richard is not only ageless, but indestructible too...because anybody within a few hundred feet of the swan site would probably be vaporized...

Exactly. When the bomb went off, he wasn't near the explosion, he only knew they were there. They died in the original timeline, and were sent to a new timeline at the same time.

[jpventoso]

If the bomb was The Incident, that means that Desmond will still fail to press the button and make the plane crash... So, why didn't 815 crash on the alternate timeline?

On the other hand, if Kate killed someone else instead of her father, that means that events that are previous to the crash were different.
Maybe all things that happened from 1977, changed. So, what if the whole island was destroyed with the bomb in this alternate timeline?

I like the "no-island" theory except for one thing that doesn't fit: If Ben is a doctor, that means his father never joined the DI. But that event was previous to 1977, so it seems that the alternate timeline is different at any time, like a parallel universe...

[rich_g]

Originally Posted by Strokedown

Exactly. When the bomb went off, he wasn't near the explosion, he only knew they were there. They died in the original timeline, and were sent to a new timeline at the same time.

What if they black out for 2 minutes 17 seconds, then wake up with new 'memories' of what would have happened?