3x08 Flashes Before Your Eyes

[Jared]

So - Flashes Before Your Eyes - one of the most epic episodes ever for some (including me). There is not that much left to talk about actually except there is something that I've noticed now with all the knowledge after five seasons. When we found out that Ms. Hawking is infact Daniel Faraday's mother and has his journal and all we assumed that's how she knew so much about Desmond and everything. But really, that is not that satisfying looking back now.

It's hard for me to put this in words cause I'm not a native english speaker but I'll try.

First of all, she can't know all the things she knows just from Dan's journal, there is just no way. All those details she knows when she is convincing Des not to marry Penny and to just let things go the way they're supposed to (according to her).
The only way she can know about the guy in the red shoes is if she relived that moment over and over again just like Desmond is and to be even more aware of it than he is. Else she couldn't know the guy in the red shoes would get hit by that construction site or by a taxi the next day and so on.

What I'm getting at is she must have experienced something similiar to Desmond. The way she left the island, there has to be more to it. If not this is a GIANT continuity error. Now I'm not one of those guys that complains to much about that sort of thing but I'm just saying. Also, Lindelof described her as "some sort of temporal policeman in place to make sure that everybody who is supposed to get to the island, does." So there just has to be more to it or at least there was supposed to be more to it. And I actually just read for the first time that at one point he said that she is in fact traveling through time.

This is all confusing I guess but I just had to write that down somewhere. What I'm trying to say is, I think we're are going to see that Ms. Hawking isn't just leaving the island, she has to leave in a similiar way to Desmond which makes her even more special than him cause she is aware of reliving everything, she probably tried to save the guy in the red shoes (and probably a lot more people) just like Desmond did with Charlie.

So to put this in a theory or a discussion or whatever I think in season six we are going to see the way Ms. Hawking is leaving the island and quite possibly a lot more of her doing her policing, [CAUTION: A BIT SPOILER-ISH FOR PEOPLE NOT FOLLOWING ANY OF THE VIRAL MARKETING STUFF GOING ON, YOU NEVER KNOW... ALSO J.J. ABRAMS' FRINGE & STAR TREK] especially with the alternate timeslines and everything going on. I didn't wanna admit it, but I think the alternate reality stuff in Star Trek and Fringe is actually just a tiny bit similiar or relevant to what the heck is going on on LOST.

I'm sure somehow has though of this before I just couldn't find anything on it right now. I just think a lot of people are done with Ms. Hawking but I think there really is a loooooot more to it or at least there should be and I'm saying this even though I got quite a bit annoyed by her towards the end.

So.. whata ya think?

[243kof]

I was thinking about that yesterday. I agree with you, the writers should tell us more about how Mrs. Hawking knows all that stuff.

Also, Lindelof described her as "some sort of temporal policeman in place to make sure that everybody who is supposed to get to the island, does." So there just has to be more to it or at least there was supposed to be more to it. And I actually just read for the first time that at one point he said that she is in fact traveling through time.

Could you provide a link from where you read that?

[Jared]

Could you provide a link from where you read that?

Great, don't have enough posts yet to link stuff. It's from Lostpedia Hawking/Trivia: In an interview with ew.com, the producers suggest that Eloise travels through time. LINDELOF: "Unless you travel back in time, like Mrs. Hawking does."

[MM0602]

Yeah I got that feeling when rewatching this episode... they need to clear this up somehow next season, but I don't think Eloise should get a whole flashback episode to herself... maybe if she and Widmore had a shared centric, or at least partially shared?

But anyway, excellent episode. I can understand all the hype this one gets, but now, The Constant... that one is overrated imo. But I'll save that for its own rewatch thread

[neznarf]

One of my favourite episodes so far! It is funny to rewatch this episode with so much more knowledge about Charles Widmore and Mrs. Hawking.
I hope we get to see more of Desmond and Penny in season 6.

[Ricardus Alpert]

Epic episode. Both S3 and S4 had such awsome Desmond centric episodes, it's a shame he never really had one in S5.

[bonds0756]

Clearly Ms. Hawking's character needs to be explained, as you are correct.

I fear, like others, that TPTB did not properly plan out her character from the get-go. Her brief appearance in Season 3 was very different from her role in Season 5.

On the other hand, this shouldn't be too easy to clean up. The Incident gives her foreknowledge of the future, or she starts traveling in time, or some time later ends up with a new role as temporal policeman.

[hailey]

cute beginning...the drinking buddies around the fire....

i noticed that sarah mclachlan, building a mystery is playing in the background during the scene where des is getting ready for his interview. and i actually think thats pretty perfect, because this episode definatly builds a mystery for the viewers...or really a few mysteries....
eloise talking about things happening a certain way, and how des is meant to be on the island sets things up for season 5, and how we are starting to see that really everyone had already been there, and was always going to have been there.... eloise is one of many vehicles for getting people to the island...along with widmore, malkin, abbadon, etc...

a couple questions i have: 1. did desmond REALLY see charlie playing guitar...? i know desmond is out of place, and doesnt remember everything, but wouldnt on island desmond, or on island charlie recognize eachother? des was acting pretty crazy, and charlie would likely remember that encounter...
2. did the photographer give des and penny two photos? because both of them have a copy, and they broke up immediatly after it was taken, so they didnt get a second copy after the fact....not really important at all...just something i was thinking about.

this was an awesome episode and starts setting up time travel nicely...its like tptb are giving us a little taste of whats to come....
i also agree that eloise needs to be explored a bit more. the problem is there are many characters that i feel need to be explored more, and i know they cant possibly get around to all of them in one season/18 hours. lets hope they at least give us something more on her past and her part in everything...i think they have to, and probably will...

[New Otherton]

It actually is unlikely that Charlie would remember desmond at all. I don;t know how many of you live in a major urban centre, but when you do, odd encounters with seemingly crazed individuals is an almost everyday occurence, sometimes more than once in a given day. The odds that anyone would remember a nutjob they had a brief encounter with ten years ago are very slim. I'm sure I've passed by lunatics on the street I've had words with in the past and not recognized them.

Now the interesting thing with that scene is why Desmond doesn't seem to remember Charlie, and I am fairly certain I have the answer. In the episode we see the two consciousnesses of Desmond (1994 consciousness, and 2004 consciousness) dueling for dominance throughout the episode. Sometimes it's the 1994 one speaking, sometimes it's the 2004 one speaking. During that scene it was the 2004 conscious speaking.

Now, in "The Constant" they expanded on Desmonds mind travelling abilities, and showed that the present consciousness would sort of go into a coma, depending on what was happening. With this information we now can surmise that Desmond wouldn't remember that encounter with Charlie until the point where his 2004 consciousness returns to its rightful place. The 1994 mind has no memory of that encounter because it wasn't the mind experiencing it. His mind has to "catch up" with itself essentially.

On the topic of Hawking, I stand firm on the fact that the journal explains pretty much everything we've seen of her supposed ability to see the future. Introducing the journal and also having her be a fortune teller is redundant.

[JD84]

I was thinking that Widmore & Hawking set up that red shoe incident to make desmond believe.