Discuss "The Stand" (main thread)

[Shane9999100]

First of all, this will contain spoilers.

I can definatley see how this influenced Lost. Quite a few of the themes from The Stand are, in some shape or form, in Lost. What struck me the most, seeing as I started reading this after the Incident, was how Jacob and his nemesis seem to be representing good and evil, much like Mother Abagain and Randall Flagg did. I wouldnt be surprised if the last season of Lost will eventually deal with some of the main characters taking a stand against Jacob's Nemesis and the ones that choose to follow him, much like what Larry, Stu, Glen, and Ralph did in The Stand.

Enough about Lost though, onto my thoughts on The Stand.

I found the first part of The Stand(Captain Trips) to be my favorite part of the entire book. Something about seeing the characters watch the world gradually fade away around them kept my interest real well, and I feel that part played out perfectly. I also really enjoyed the parts where people were wandering on their own, trying to deal with the lonesome new lives they had, wondering if anyone else was alive. As some people have said, the beginnings of Stephen King books are usually his strongest point, and this is no exception. Right from the beginning of this section with Campion fleeing the military base and to the end of it with Stu meeting Fran and Harold, I could hardly put the book down.

In the second part(On the Border), I felt it slowed down a bit, specifically in the parts dealing with the Committe and the jobs around town such as burying bodies or the attempts to get the power back on. That doesnt mean I didnt like it, but I definatley was a little less interested in some of the details of things that didnt necessarily matter to the overall story. But still, the slower parts were melded with interesting points such as Nadine and Harold's gradual fall into Flagg's grasp, and character development that was very much necessary. When Harold and Nadine betrayed everyone and blew up Susan and Nick as well as some other people, I felt things picked up again real fast, and that the whole tone of the book changed from a struggle of survival to a struggle against evil.

I felt the final part(The Stand) was nearly just about as good as the beginning was. I liked seeing the ultimate conclusion of everyone's storylines, and it was a little sad to see Glen, Ralph, and Larry go. I also ended up feeling bad for Harold and Nadine, characters I had come to hate not too long ago for blowing up my favorite character(Nick). I felt that the way Randall Flagg's operation slowly crumbled around him was done real well, though I kind of wish that Larry and Ralph could have had some part in setting off the bomb beyond causing Whitney to realize that what Flagg and his followers were doing wasnt right. Although, I do like the way that in the end, Flagg's magic gets used against him and ultimatley brings apart everything that he had set up. I feel that in this case, it is a good use of Deus Ex Machina, a plot device I am usually against. Flagg uses his magic to murder a man that is making a stand against him and putting down the way he does things, and god takes that magic, upholds his end of the deal, and wipes out Flagg's operation, ending the threat of the West for good.


Overall: Very good. I ended up wishing that some of the characters that died lived, something I didnt do with any other book before, and at some parts, I was actually feeling sad or afraid as things were going on. I look forward to going through a second time and seeing what I find that I missed the first time around. Dont know if this is my favorite book, but it is definatley up there real high. It definatley is the book that reminded me the most of Lost, which isn't surprising considering it greatly influenced Lost.

[guyswherearewe]

Originally Posted by Shane9999100

First of all, this will contain spoilers.

I can definatley see how this influenced Lost. Quite a few of the themes from The Stand are, in some shape or form, in Lost. What struck me the most, seeing as I started reading this after the Incident, was how Jacob and his nemesis seem to be representing good and evil, much like Mother Abagain and Randall Flagg did. I wouldnt be surprised if the last season of Lost will eventually deal with some of the main characters taking a stand against Jacob's Nemesis and the ones that choose to follow him, much like what Larry, Stu, Glen, and Ralph did in The Stand.

Enough about Lost though, onto my thoughts on The Stand.

I found the first part of The Stand(Captain Trips) to be my favorite part of the entire book. Something about seeing the characters watch the world gradually fade away around them kept my interest real well, and I feel that part played out perfectly. I also really enjoyed the parts where people were wandering on their own, trying to deal with the lonesome new lives they had, wondering if anyone else was alive. As some people have said, the beginnings of Stephen King books are usually his strongest point, and this is no exception. Right from the beginning of this section with Campion fleeing the military base and to the end of it with Stu meeting Fran and Harold, I could hardly put the book down.

In the second part(On the Border), I felt it slowed down a bit, specifically in the parts dealing with the Committe and the jobs around town such as burying bodies or the attempts to get the power back on. That doesnt mean I didnt like it, but I definatley was a little less interested in some of the details of things that didnt necessarily matter to the overall story. But still, the slower parts were melded with interesting points such as Nadine and Harold's gradual fall into Flagg's grasp, and character development that was very much necessary. When Harold and Nadine betrayed everyone and blew up Susan and Nick as well as some other people, I felt things picked up again real fast, and that the whole tone of the book changed from a struggle of survival to a struggle against evil.

I felt the final part(The Stand) was nearly just about as good as the beginning was. I liked seeing the ultimate conclusion of everyone's storylines, and it was a little sad to see Glen, Ralph, and Larry go. I also ended up feeling bad for Harold and Nadine, characters I had come to hate not too long ago for blowing up my favorite character(Nick). I felt that the way Randall Flagg's operation slowly crumbled around him was done real well, though I kind of wish that Larry and Ralph could have had some part in setting off the bomb beyond causing Whitney to realize that what Flagg and his followers were doing wasnt right. Although, I do like the way that in the end, Flagg's magic gets used against him and ultimatley brings apart everything that he had set up. I feel that in this case, it is a good use of Deus Ex Machina, a plot device I am usually against. Flagg uses his magic to murder a man that is making a stand against him and putting down the way he does things, and god takes that magic, upholds his end of the deal, and wipes out Flagg's operation, ending the threat of the West for good.


Overall: Very good. I ended up wishing that some of the characters that died lived, something I didnt do with any other book before, and at some parts, I was actually feeling sad or afraid as things were going on. I look forward to going through a second time and seeing what I find that I missed the first time around. Dont know if this is my favorite book, but it is definatley up there real high. It definatley is the book that reminded me the most of Lost, which isn't surprising considering it greatly influenced Lost.

Good review Shane. I loved the Stand too, and you pretty much got all they key reasons in there

[Snowhite197]

Just before I started watching Lost about a month ago (it's so addictive i'm already caught up!!!) I randomly started reading the Stand. My boss who also loves Lost and loves to read asked me about The Stand, so I gave her a little book report. It really made me think.

I think the main differences between The Stand and Lost is that in The Stand you definitely can tell who the bad guys are from the beginning, in Lost I'm not even sure there are really any 'bad guys' or 'good guys'. Also, much of Lost consists of finding out what happened in the past that led to the story; in The Stand you see the events unfold at the beginning of the story.

Does Larry's character remind anyone else of Sawyer? I mean, yes he is a musician and he was taken advantage of like Charlie, but I think there is a sort of outer self vs inner self going on with both of these characters; for Sawyer it's the tough guy who doesn't need anyone vs the fiercely loyal friend and passionate lover that we really saw out in the open in the Season 5 finale. For Larry it's the fun-loving, carefree, confident musician vs the insecure guy who has made bad decisions and is struggling with whether or not he is really a good person. I guess Charlie went through the same thing but I think he was a little more open about it, at least to some people, whereas both Sawyer and Larry really keep it inside.

[guyswherearewe]

Interesting webpage for anyone thats read the book...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Stand

[fakefakeflowers]

Originally Posted by lostinpgh

I think that Flagg saying his name was also Freemantle is King's way of illustrating the old God-Satan connection. They go together even though they are opposites. Can't have the good without the bad.

And you can apply it right to Lost, "two sides, one light, one dark"

I agree, but I think it goes a little further. I think Flagg chose the name Richard Freemantle in order to kind of mock Mother Abagail.

They say that Satan copies the ways of God, don/t they?

[fakefakeflowers]

Originally Posted by lostinpgh

Yeah with Lost it's harder to see everyone's motivations, why it is they're doing what they're doing. With The Stand people are just lining up and checking a box for good or evil basically.

I disagree. If you/ll remember, Dayna Jurgens (when sent to Las Vegas as a spy for the Free Zone) notes that most of Flagg/s followers are good people, they just happen to be too weak and overcome w/ fear to do anything about Randall Flagg and his evil ways.
They didn/t decide to join the cause of evil, most of them felt they had no other choice (most of the people in Vegas didn/t have dreams of Mother Abagail).

[Blost14]

I just finished The Stand, and I must say it's one of my favorite, if not my favorite book, I've ever read. I just finished, so I think I need some time to digest everything before giving more thoughts about it. But I absolutely loved this book and could definately see the connections between it and lost. Great Book for sure!

[mattepntr]

Originally Posted by Shane9999100

First of all, this will contain spoilers.

I can definatley see how this influenced Lost. Quite a few of the themes from The Stand are, in some shape or form, in Lost. What struck me the most, seeing as I started reading this after the Incident, was how Jacob and his nemesis seem to be representing good and evil, much like Mother Abagain and Randall Flagg did. I wouldnt be surprised if the last season of Lost will eventually deal with some of the main characters taking a stand against Jacob's Nemesis and the ones that choose to follow him, much like what Larry, Stu, Glen, and Ralph did in The Stand.

Enough about Lost though, onto my thoughts on The Stand.

I found the first part of The Stand(Captain Trips) to be my favorite part of the entire book. Something about seeing the characters watch the world gradually fade away around them kept my interest real well, and I feel that part played out perfectly. I also really enjoyed the parts where people were wandering on their own, trying to deal with the lonesome new lives they had, wondering if anyone else was alive. As some people have said, the beginnings of Stephen King books are usually his strongest point, and this is no exception. Right from the beginning of this section with Campion fleeing the military base and to the end of it with Stu meeting Fran and Harold, I could hardly put the book down.

In the second part(On the Border), I felt it slowed down a bit, specifically in the parts dealing with the Committe and the jobs around town such as burying bodies or the attempts to get the power back on. That doesnt mean I didnt like it, but I definatley was a little less interested in some of the details of things that didnt necessarily matter to the overall story. But still, the slower parts were melded with interesting points such as Nadine and Harold's gradual fall into Flagg's grasp, and character development that was very much necessary. When Harold and Nadine betrayed everyone and blew up Susan and Nick as well as some other people, I felt things picked up again real fast, and that the whole tone of the book changed from a struggle of survival to a struggle against evil.

I felt the final part(The Stand) was nearly just about as good as the beginning was. I liked seeing the ultimate conclusion of everyone's storylines, and it was a little sad to see Glen, Ralph, and Larry go. I also ended up feeling bad for Harold and Nadine, characters I had come to hate not too long ago for blowing up my favorite character(Nick). I felt that the way Randall Flagg's operation slowly crumbled around him was done real well, though I kind of wish that Larry and Ralph could have had some part in setting off the bomb beyond causing Whitney to realize that what Flagg and his followers were doing wasnt right. Although, I do like the way that in the end, Flagg's magic gets used against him and ultimatley brings apart everything that he had set up. I feel that in this case, it is a good use of Deus Ex Machina, a plot device I am usually against. Flagg uses his magic to murder a man that is making a stand against him and putting down the way he does things, and god takes that magic, upholds his end of the deal, and wipes out Flagg's operation, ending the threat of the West for good.


Overall: Very good. I ended up wishing that some of the characters that died lived, something I didnt do with any other book before, and at some parts, I was actually feeling sad or afraid as things were going on. I look forward to going through a second time and seeing what I find that I missed the first time around. Dont know if this is my favorite book, but it is definatley up there real high. It definatley is the book that reminded me the most of Lost, which isn't surprising considering it greatly influenced Lost.

^^This, this, and definitely this.^^

I first read "The Stand" when it came out in paperback in 1980. It was the first time I ever felt completely absorbed into a story. I never wanted it to end.

There are lots of parallels to "Lost", but I didn't realize it until I saw a podcast with Cuse/ Lindeloff talking about literary references in the show, and "The Stand" had pride-of-place in Cuse's lap. There are many references to King all through the show (especially Ben's bunny with the big number 8 painted on it's back. That one made me laugh out loud )

I think what ultimately sets "The Stand" apart from other similar fiction is the three-dimensionality and believability of the characters. They truly do seem like real people. In fact, King has said that he still gets letters from fans asking about how the characters lives turned out! As if he gets letters from Fran and Stu once in a while....

I can see the same dedication in TPTB to make the characters in "Lost" as vivid and compelling as they can. It's what IMO sets "Lost" apart from other television shows. Sure, the plot is interesting, but it's the characters that make you care, and keep you tuning in to see how (and if) they make it through.

[mattepntr]

"When Harold and Nadine betrayed everyone and blew up Susan and Nick as well as some other people, I felt things picked up again real fast, and that the whole tone of the book changed"

Ironically, King suffered a huge bout of writer's block during this stretch. He called it his own "Vietnam" because he felt the story was bogged down with too many characters and subplots, and felt he had lost the focus of the book. He had an "a-ha!" moment during one of his walks, where he came up with the idea of the domestic terrorism event. You can see his own inner state reflected in the main characters- they were losing their sense of purpose in the mundane details of trying to restart society. It took a bomb blast to wake them up and get the plot moving into the third act.

[Trylobyte]

Originally Posted by mattepntr

You can see his own inner state reflected in the main characters- they were losing their sense of purpose in the mundane details of trying to restart society. It took a bomb blast to wake them up and get the plot moving into the third act.

I can see a similarity with the bomb at the end of season 5. I think it was a 'wake up' call for all the characters (eg. Sawyer - stop your Dharma fantasy life, Jack - you're wrong, you're not meant to erase the past, you have a different destiny, Kate - find Claire instead of ruining Jack's & Sawyer's life)

As for the ending, a lot people were disappointed because the characters didn't kill Flagg themselves. Although I would love a bloody showdown but that wasn't the point of story. The story was about good standing up against evil and that was what Larry, Ralph and Glen courageously did. Glen laughed his ass off in front of Flagg (my favourite part of the book) while Larry and Ralph chose to get crucified than bow down to Flagg.

I think Lost will end in a similar way. Jack and co. will not physically beat up Flocke/Esau but they will do something brave and noble that would prove Esau was wrong about his views on humanity. I think everyone will die except for Sun, Jin, Walt, Vincent, Desmond and Hurley.