03x16 - "One of Us"

[KittyLili114]

This thread is for discussion of the 04/11/2007 episode. It will be opened just before the episode airs at 10/9c.
If this thread has not been opened 15 minutes before the episode airs, please try to contact a Sysop on Lostpedia IRC.

Please see the In-show analysis & chat (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=3877) thread for general "excitement" comments on the episode.

"One Of Us (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/One_of_Us)"

About posting spoilers in this thread:

It is okay to post about the current episode and the preview that immediately followed.
Anything else MUST be put into spoiler post format.

When in doubt, do it anyways.

[Flight 815]

this episode nswered some of my questions. :D

[kaboyz]

Why do all the woman have cancer and why does the island cure it and why does 'it' happen at conception?

[4 8 15 16 23 42]

Ppl who said that they cant have kids where right! i salute you

[downsideup]

I definitely love Juliet flashbacks, even though I hate "rooting" for her character. The bits and pieces from her past helped answer some questions. All is good. Definitely one of the better episodes.

[Shepherd Emperor]

Why do all the woman have cancer and why does the island cure it and why does 'it' happen at conception?
I don't recall that. The problem was all women dieing in childbirth.

[poke4christ]

I'm just glad they didn't let this whole Juliet deception thing go on for a lot more episodes. They easily could have. It was nice of them to have that little speal at the end there. However, since they did, I think they might be setting Juliet up to appear evil and then have her do something to help the losties, or maybe I'm just trying to think positively. Anyway, great episode!

[PseuMdoYnym]

Ya know, I read the spoiler about the implant, but I did a while ago, and this episode convinced me it was a foiler!

Great episode. What did the date say on the newspaper? I missed it.

[sontzi]

So... doesn't Sawyer have an implant too? Can they control him too?

[Shepherd Emperor]

Ya know, I read the spoiler about the implant, but I did a while ago, and this episode convinced me it was a foiler!

Great episode. What did the date say on the newspaper? I missed it.
The closeup was September 11,2004. It looked like December before the closeup, but my eyes might have been playing tricks.

[incognito]

Ya know, I read the spoiler about the implant, but I did a while ago, and this episode convinced me it was a foiler!

Great episode. What did the date say on the newspaper? I missed it.

Sept 22nd, 2004.

[kingsley9002]

Sayid needs to get some torturin' going on Juliet's double crossin' ass....get the acid Sayid....get the acid...

[sontzi]

So go my peeps and spew good theories so I can read them tomorrow and cherish them and maybe be in awe :)

G'NITE EVERYONE!

PS: WHAT AN AWESOME EPISODE!! who is with me???? :P

[PseuMdoYnym]

RE: The Person who said Saywer might have an implant:

I hope not! But if I were Ben and I had an opportunity to implant something in a Lostie, I would.

I was also wondering "see ya in a week", 7 days means 7 episodes traditionally, right? One episode = one day? But there are only 5 episodes left. Either something goes amiss with Juliet's plan, or the writers leave us hanging. . .

[poke4christ]

The closeup was September 11,2004. It looked like December before the closeup, but my eyes might have been playing tricks.

I thought it was the 22nd. Anyway, it was the same day as the plane crash. One thing theory that I think we can no effectively put to be is the temporal displacement theory. Obviously, time is progressing at the same pace on and off the island.

[HattoriHanso]

IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE PREVIEW FOR NEXT WEEK THEN DON'T READ THIS: I saw a flash in the preview of a book called ARDIL- 22. anyone know what that is?

[KittyLili114]

This is the symbol that was on the tree:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/symbol.jpg
Anyone know what it is?

[HattoriHanso]

RE: The Person who said Saywer might have an implant:

I hope not! But if I were Ben and I had an opportunity to implant something in a Lostie, I would.

I was also wondering "see ya in a week", 7 days means 7 episodes traditionally, right? One episode = one day? But there are only 5 episodes left. Either something goes amiss with Juliet's plan, or the writers leave us hanging. . .

if this were true there would already be over 80 episodes.

[Shepherd Emperor]

I thought it was the 22nd. Anyway, it was the same day as the plane crash.
My eyes are not the only thing failing me. At least I remembered a double number...

[sday06]

Doesn't the carving on the tree resemble the 'mark' Juliet received for trying to kill Ben and killing the other guy? I don't have any evidence to back it up, but could someone look into it. Here's Juliet's mark:

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/a/ab/Julietmark.jpg

[KittyLili114]

I thought it was the 22nd.
It is::)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/22-1.jpg
[sorry about the crappy screencap :o]

[poke4christ]

RE: The Person who said Saywer might have an implant:

I hope not! But if I were Ben and I had an opportunity to implant something in a Lostie, I would.

I was also wondering "see ya in a week", 7 days means 7 episodes traditionally, right? One episode = one day? But there are only 5 episodes left. Either something goes amiss with Juliet's plan, or the writers leave us hanging. . .

7 days definitely doesn't equal 7 episodes. They've gone away from this formula many times. Check out the Episode list on the wiki to see. It shows the days that progressed during the episode.

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Portal:Episode_Guide

We've now had 63 episodes and have progressed 82 days or so into the series.

[KittyLili114]

Doesn't the carving on the tree resemble the 'mark' Juliet received for trying to kill Ben and killing the other guy?
The carving on the tree was more rounded, not as long:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/symbol.jpghttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/cross.jpg
But pretty close!

[Shepherd Emperor]

The carving and the scar are a match! What is it?

[PseuMdoYnym]

RE: The person who asked about the promo spoiler

SPOILER IF YOU DIDN'T WATCH THE PROMO (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Heller&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522ARDIL-22%2522%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG)

It's Catch-22 in Portugese

[Dent]

So go my peeps and spew good theories so I can read them tomorrow and cherish them and maybe be in awe :)

G'NITE EVERYONE!

PS: WHAT AN AWESOME EPISODE!! who is with me???? :P

with you, definatly. I would go into more about this and that, thoughts, ideas, ramblings, and misguided attempts at humor and salvation but ....

I'm going to the bar, see you all tomorow

[Mykee]

Anyone else notice how choked up Ford was when he said that? After just hugging Jack and Kate?

That's some darn good acting!!!

Mike

[JonlyBonly]

So... doesn't Sawyer have an implant too? Can they control him too?

OOOO! I bet he does! Ben was the one that told him that they put an implant in him.... and then in tonight’s epi, Ben was very adamant that he's NOT a liar. This could be very interesting! (and we might get to see Sawyer w/o his shirt on some more!!!) <<< sorry for that last part! :p




The carving on the tree was more rounded, not as long:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/symbol.jpghttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/cross.jpg
But pretty close!

Great caps Kit-Kat!! I wonder if that symbol on the tree trunk might be the symbol for another *station* on the island, maybe?



I'm going to the bar, see you all tomorow

Have a beer for me! I LOVE Guinness!

[BiscoStu]

True but later on in the episode ben admits that the only thing that he put into Sawyer was doubt. Either way he is a liar, and I am willing to bet he lies more than he lets on.

[estaman]

PS: WHAT AN AWESOME EPISODE!! who is with me???? :P

OMG...now I know what drug addicts feel like when they get something _really_ pure. Except I'm a LOST answer addict, and this episode was an overdose. The sub, the Flame in operation...

And I don't care if Ben and Juliet are evil. At least, as someone said in last week's episode thread, they are definitely evil with STYLE.

[Mavrey]

BEN WAS BORN ON THIS ISLAND!

how is that possible???

[by his blood]

At least we now know how the others were able to get all the info on everyone on the plane and there background info etc, because of patchy and the flame. Got a big question answered for me tonight.

[estaman]

OOOO! I bet he does! Ben was the one that told him that they put an implant in him.... and then in tonight’s epi, Ben was very adamant that he's NOT a liar.


The one potential lie that I'm interested in is how he convinced Juliet to originally stay on the Island--your sister has cancer, and J will cure it if you stay. All the evidence that Juliet had that her sister's cancer came back was a medical file from Ben. How easy to fake is that? And if Juliet's sister's cancer didn't come back, it was easy for Ben to continue the manipulation showing the healthy sister and child from the Flame.

Like Ben himself said, find out what they are emotionally vested in and twist. It was no secret what Juliet was emotionally vested in from her first flashback.

[ohmss]

I love to wonder about the islands location, and this episode gave us a few clues.

Its a rough ride to get there. But I'm pretty sure it's not by submarine.

She arrived at the Aerospace facility where we see an airfield in the background. Its a highly secure facility. Why would she be at an airport to go somewhere by submarine? Last I remember, there weren't any airports at the docks.

Wouldn't she meet them at their highly secure dock facility if she was going by sub? She arrives in her same clothes, with no idea how long shes been out, waking up strapped into a sub bed.

My guess is that there is no submarine access to the island, its all a ruse.

A guy posted on the forums today that he thought there may be an airport on the island. I think it is more likely a small airstrip (hence the small planes).

The aerospace company has been founded by Mittelos bioscience to develop these specially made small planes that can fly through the electromagnetic cloud that surrounds the island.

They land on a small secret airstrip, drag juliet to a sub, strap her in for effect, then waker her up and say hi! There are guys sitting in the sub playing cards, I mean come on!

Why this far fetched routine you say? Secrecy.

The island's powers require that its location kept in utter secrecy. As stated before by Alvar Hanso himself, its location is only known by a handful of people. Think about the power the island holds. When you arrive there, you can live forever. As long as you don't procreate. Ummmm, you sold me. Everyone and their mother would want to come to this island if they knew where it was.

So, its location is kept secret while Dharma tries to figure out its powers and where they come from, and how they can use it to possibly save the world. Cue lots of crazy experiments and the building of a big facility on the island.

[WillG]

I dunno its possible but that seems like a bit far fetched. They could have flown to another island in the south pacific then taken the sub from there.

[niceguy8642]

Did anyone happen to catch what Juliet said about Claire and her birthing the baby off of the island word for word? I watched it and I didn't even catch it until I was explaining it to someone. Did Juliet point blank lie to Jack and Kate by saying that Claire shouldn't have been at risk since she gave birth off of the island? But she was WAY pregnant for most of season one and totally gave birth ON the island AFTER she was kidnapped.
Did anyone else catch this or was it me?

[WillG]

Did anyone happen to catch what Juliet said about Claire and her birthing the baby off of the island word for word? I watched it and I didn't even catch it until I was explaining it to someone. Did Juliet point blank lie to Jack and Kate by saying that Claire shouldn't have been at risk since she gave birth off of the island? But she was WAY pregnant for most of season one and totally gave birth ON the island AFTER she was kidnapped.
Did anyone else catch this or was it me?

I think she said that she concieved off the island.

[Texasqt015]

At least we now know how the others were able to get all the info on everyone on the plane and there background info etc, because of patchy and the flame. Got a big question answered for me tonight.

but even then... theres still questions...we know patchy "was working on it" when Ben and Juliet came in but how do you acquire so much information so fast???

[estaman]

Did anyone happen to catch what Juliet said about Claire and her birthing the baby off of the island word for word? I watched it and I didn't even catch it until I was explaining it to someone. Did Juliet point blank lie to Jack and Kate by saying that Claire shouldn't have been at risk since she gave birth off of the island? But she was WAY pregnant for most of season one and totally gave birth ON the island AFTER she was kidnapped.
Did anyone else catch this or was it me?

I thought that Juliet said that they weren't sure if Claire was in danger because she conceived off of the Island. And earlier in the episode, Juliet had thought that whatever is causing the miscarriages and mothers' deaths was happening at conception.

But now there's Sun to think about...

[niceguy8642]

My bad. I need to rewatch this tomorrow anyways.

[estaman]

but even then... theres still questions...we know patchy "was working on it" when Ben and Juliet came in but how do you acquire so much information so fast???

Like how did they know about the man that Sawyer killed the night before he got on the plane? Did the Police even know about that yet? I don't remember from the earlier episodes. I know they were deporting Sawyer as a persona non grata, but I would think if they knew he killed someone they'd be more likely to keep him for trial.

[poke4christ]

but even then... theres still questions...we know patchy "was working on it" when Ben and Juliet came in but how do you acquire so much information so fast???

That's right, we don't totally know. Juliet knew that Sawyer had shot and killed a man in cold blood before getting on the plane, and nobody knew that except him. So, the flame was only the means of communication to receive the knowledge, and not the source of it.

[slyce23]

BEN WAS BORN ON THIS ISLAND!

how is that possible???

hmm.....good point. This inability to birth on the island is either A) a recent development, B) Ben is lying about where he was born(which i doubt), or C) he really was and that's why he's a high-ranking other. he was a miracle.

gaah! so many questions. all in all, I really liked this episode. too bad Juliet seems to be on the evil side. I was beginning to trust her. anyone else think they might have her defect to the losties at some point?

[KittyLili114]

hmm.....good point. This inability to birth on the island is either A) a recent development, B) Ben is lying about where he was born(which i doubt), or C) he really was and that's why he's a high-ranking other. he was a miracle.
Or he was conceived off the Island like Aaron was?

[slyce23]

Or he was conceived off the Island like Aaron was?

oooh that's possible too. I think there's a LOT he's not telling ANYONE. even after his whole "I'm telling the truth" scene.

[JonlyBonly]

The one potential lie that I'm interested in is how he convinced Juliet to originally stay on the Island--your sister has cancer, and J will cure it if you stay. All the evidence that Juliet had that her sister's cancer came back was a medical file from Ben. How easy to fake is that? And if Juliet's sister's cancer didn't come back, it was easy for Ben to continue the manipulation showing the healthy sister and child from the Flame.

Like Ben himself said, find out what they are emotionally vested in and twist. It was no secret what Juliet was emotionally vested in from her first flashback.

Everything you wrote is sooo true! Boy, that Ben is really one Master Manipulator!! :cool:

[calluke]

Or he was conceived off the Island like Aaron was?

exactly.

or he IS aaron with that whole time warp thing. lol.

[Lael]

BEN WAS BORN ON THIS ISLAND!

how is that possible???

Isn't it possible that he was conceived off the Island, or even on it, and then his mother died in childbirth, or at least at a late enough stage in the pregnancy that they were able to save the baby?


I thought that Juliet said that they weren't sure if Claire was in danger because she conceived off of the Island. And earlier in the episode, Juliet had thought that whatever is causing the miscarriages and mothers' deaths was happening at conception.

But now there's Sun to think about...

If the baby is Jae Lin's then it was conceived off the Island, so Sun may be okay.

[calluke]

If the baby is Jae Lin's then it was conceived off the Island, so Sun may be okay.

exactly. so maybe in the upcoming episode titled, DOB (date of conception), we will find out whether sun will live or not based on who the father is!

[poke4christ]

exactly.

or he IS aaron with that whole time warp thing. lol.


[hippie voice]Woe man, you just like, blew my mind man![/hippie voice]

Crazy thing is, I think this might actually be possible. You get the gold star if it ends up being true. However, since they were going to kill of him early on, I doubt it is. Maybe Jacob is actually Aaron ;)

[calluke]

Maybe Jacob is actually Aaron ;)

you just blew MY mind! and if you are right, you get the platinum star! :D

[estaman]

If the baby is Jae Lin's then it was conceived off the Island, so Sun may be okay.

Maybe or maybe not. The Others knew that Aaron was conceived off of the Island, yet still thought that Claire might be in danger--hence Ethan and the injections. Unless they were just using Claire as a guinea pig.

[Texasqt015]

so now that we saw Ben and Juliet watching the events of the crash in "real time" (the news casts and such) is the whole time change continuum thing debunked or is it still possible???

i think this may have already been brought up earlier tonight but no one has really talked in depth about it that ive seen...

[Superchimp]

I know this has been mentioned once or twice in this thread, but no one's really attacked it yet. They obviously were able to obtain the manifest for the island and basic background information from Patchy's research, yet how do they know so much about each person? How did Juliet, for instance, know about (paraphrasing) "Sayid in Basra" or "Sawyer killing a man the night before the flight"?? Does anyone get the feeling that this is where some sort of time travel or island 'powers' figure into the equation?

[Lael]

Maaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn *in my whiniest voice*

I seriously hate it that ya'll close the in-episode chat...couldn't we merge it with this one or something?? Because so many great posts happen right in the moment of people watching, and I don't want to go in it early because I don't want to get spoiled, but ya'll always close it before the epi even airs here...so I can't participate at all. I say BOOOOO to that.

KL, my girl, I know you hear me.

There. I'll stop whining now. But shouldn't the squeaky wheel get the oil, or something? ;)

[KittyLili114]

I seriously hate it that ya'll close the in-episode chat...couldn't we merge it with this one or something??
Yeah, I understand. I'll talk to the Others about keeping it open until the final US showing on Wednesday nights.
But, merging it would defeat the purpose of having it at all. :p

[Lael]

Yeah, I understand. I'll talk to the Others about keeping it open until the final US showing on Wednesday nights.
But, merging it would defeat the purpose of having it at all. :p

That's a good compromise. I'll take it!!

But if you're gonna talk to the Others, could you tell them I wanna get on the Island? I'm pretty sure I could fake what Juliet does. I can *not* save people's lives too. That doesn't sound too hard.

[Man_Of_Faith]

hmm.....good point. This inability to birth on the island is either A) a recent development, B) Ben is lying about where he was born(which i doubt), or C) he really was and that's why he's a high-ranking other. he was a miracle.



Or he was conceived off the Island like Aaron was?

And what about Alex? She was born on the island - if Ben is her father, where/when was she conceived?


GREAT episode!

[myk]

And what about Alex? She was born on the island - if Ben is her father, where/when was she conceived?

Danielle was pregnant when they crashed on the island. Ben being her actual biological father is seriously in doubt.

[Lael]

Danielle was pregnant when they crashed on the island. Ben being her actual biological father is seriously in doubt.

Thank you for saying that, Myk. I really didn't want to fight the whole Ben is not the Bio-Daddy battle again. Shhhh....don't even tell Grizz that someone brought this up. He owes me a steak dinner. ;)

[KittyLili114]

if Ben is her father, where/when was she conceived?
At the end of Season 1 the producers said that Danielle has never seen an Other.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/cupcakesaysmeow/letterdanielle.jpg
[To see the whole letter click here (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showpost.php?p=87690&postcount=34)]

So how could Ben be Alex's biological father?

[Also see: here (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?p=92870#post92870)]

[incognito]

I love to wonder about the islands location, and this episode gave us a few clues.

Its a rough ride to get there. But I'm pretty sure it's not by submarine.

She arrived at the Aerospace facility where we see an airfield in the background. Its a highly secure facility. Why would she be at an airport to go somewhere by submarine? Last I remember, there weren't any airports at the docks.

Wouldn't she meet them at their highly secure dock facility if she was going by sub? She arrives in her same clothes, with no idea how long shes been out, waking up strapped into a sub bed.

My guess is that there is no submarine access to the island, its all a ruse.

A guy posted on the forums today that he thought there may be an airport on the island. I think it is more likely a small airstrip (hence the small planes).

The aerospace company has been founded by Mittelos bioscience to develop these specially made small planes that can fly through the electromagnetic cloud that surrounds the island.

They land on a small secret airstrip, drag juliet to a sub, strap her in for effect, then waker her up and say hi! There are guys sitting in the sub playing cards, I mean come on!

Why this far fetched routine you say? Secrecy.

The island's powers require that its location kept in utter secrecy. As stated before by Alvar Hanso himself, its location is only known by a handful of people. Think about the power the island holds. When you arrive there, you can live forever. As long as you don't procreate. Ummmm, you sold me. Everyone and their mother would want to come to this island if they knew where it was.

So, its location is kept secret while Dharma tries to figure out its powers and where they come from, and how they can use it to possibly save the world. Cue lots of crazy experiments and the building of a big facility on the island.

Well in the promo for next week when he's saying "something is coming to this island", everyone is looking up and pointing, and the background noise reminds me of a helicopter. This could be a pretty good idea.

Hey, they had to helicopter into Jurassic Park, maybe this island is the same way :p

[estaman]

gaah! so many questions. all in all, I really liked this episode. too bad Juliet seems to be on the evil side. I was beginning to trust her. anyone else think they might have her defect to the losties at some point?

Alas, poor Jack, he said it himself, Juliet will do _anything_ to get off of the Island including betraying the newly trusting Jack and the rest. I think the only way we would see a Juliet defection is if she decides that her chances of getting off the Island are better with the Jack/Losties than by continuing to cooperate with Ben and the Others.

[i sell seals!]

And what about Alex? She was born on the island - if Ben is her father, where/when was she conceived?

didn't danielle say that she gave birth on the island? so when juliet said that claire was the only woman to give birth and live, did she not know about danielle or did she just lie?

oh, and i think that juliet is totally conflicted about the others. she *may* turn against them and join the losties at some point.

[cstyles206]

And what about Alex? She was born on the island - if Ben is her father, where/when was she conceived?


GREAT episode!

awesome episode, i must agree.....i was waiting for someone to bring that up! i really don't think that ben is her real father tho....at i least i hope he isnt!

[BangoSkank]

Best episode evar!!! :)

Amazing that my favorite epsiode of the entire series just happened to follow my least favorite.


Where to start? This thing was awesome.

The dynamic currently at the losties camp is intense. I absolutely loved the conversation they had when the group was losing patience with Jack.

More Ethan, More Goodwin. Great stuff, these guys do such a great job at making you hate them.

And Juliet's naked back... hubba hubba

And just when they get you to feel a bit of compassion for Juliet and possibly the Other's cause... BAM! They're still evil.

And oh yeah, Sayid is right again, and he has Sawyer on his side.

Next Wednesday is so far away.

[BangoSkank]

Well in the promo for next week when he's saying "something is coming to this island", everyone is looking up and pointing, and the background noise reminds me of a helicopter. This could be a pretty good idea.

Hey, they had to helicopter into Jurassic Park, maybe this island is the same way :p

Funny, I thought that the smoke monster flashing Juliet and Kate last episode was a helicopter with someone taking pictures.

[PseuMdoYnym]

My guess is that there is no submarine access to the island, its all a ruse.


Does Submarine travel involve depressurizing and repressurizing a person? If that's the case they may have tranqed her to A. Stop her from panicing when she learns the only way there is by Sub, and B. Stop her from having to experience being depressure/repressurized. I think there could be an airstrip as well, but I think they did use the sub to get there. They most likely flew the small planes to another location and then took the sub from there. Afterall it's not like Mittletos could have a sub docked off the coast of Florida or anything without the coastguard noticing.


exactly.

or he IS aaron with that whole time warp thing. lol.

I've been saying this for a while now! I really think that's a possibility. In which case, Ben is cold blooded, because he's now purposely infecting his own mother.


so now that we saw Ben and Juliet watching the events of the crash in "real time" (the news casts and such) is the whole time change continuum thing debunked or is it still possible???

i think this may have already been brought up earlier tonight but no one has really talked in depth about it that ive seen...

I guess the only way it couldn't have debunked that theory is if Ben was lying. If he staged the whole thing, had Patchy dig up all the old news bites and stuff from when the plane went down as well as show an old tape of Rachel. It's possible to have a newspaper from the day the plane went down, or to have faked one or to have digitally edited (though doubtful based on the outdated equipment they have) the date on the newspaper on the old tape of Rachel. Or Ben would have known to film Rachel on that day because he would have known that eventually Juliet would want to know about Rachel and he'd have to show her. This could be only be IF a timewarp thing is in fact going on, and Ben knew from having lived the time loop before, when the plane would go down and when Juliet would reach her breaking point. Or, Ben could have known because he seems to have some "Walt" like abilities, things he wants to occur do, and he seems to know things that are going to happen (like Walt knew not to open the Hatch).

Of course, this is all rather far fetched.

[syncretic]

so now that we saw Ben and Juliet watching the events of the crash in "real time" (the news casts and such) is the whole time change continuum thing debunked or is it still possible???

i think this may have already been brought up earlier tonight but no one has really talked in depth about it that ive seen...

I think this could still be possible. The prop department for Lost has no problem creating fake newspapers for the tv show, why would a multibillion dollar corporation? Or they could simply save the old newspapers and pick out whatever date they wanted (if we're talking about the theory that time moves -slower- on the island, and faster in the "real world").

[msgv]

I thought this was one of the best episodes ever. It confirmed a few of the theories that people have said on this forum: Juliett is a plant, the island has healing powers, and JACOB IS ALIVE!!

Next week and from then on we will get more answers on what we want. This was a great episode. I loved every minute of it. I think Juliett looked hot when they showed her from behind. I think we now know that Ben is very self serving!!! He wants that island to himself and the people he works for. Clearly he is not as powerful as Jacob. We know from what he said about making sure Rachael is cured by Jacob, that Ben is not top dog.

I loved it, can't say enough good things about it. Rose helps to confirm that the island has healing powers. Locke also. Clearly Ben is an anomoly because he had a tumor and that should not have happened. Maybe the island helps those who are not self serving. Who knows. Was I correct in seeing Locke getting his ass kicked in the previews for next week? If so, then we might get a better idea of what happened to him between the sub and him leaving. Or we might get a better idea of where they are all going.

This episode should have restored faith in the show to those who felt that it was not going in a good direction. With five to go, we are going to start to find more and more out, and the finale will be nothing less than the best LOST ever, leaving all of us with jaws open!!!

[SuperOrange]

RE: The Person who said Saywer might have an implant:

I hope not! But if I were Ben and I had an opportunity to implant something in a Lostie, I would.

I was also wondering "see ya in a week", 7 days means 7 episodes traditionally, right? One episode = one day? But there are only 5 episodes left. Either something goes amiss with Juliet's plan, or the writers leave us hanging. . .

Nope. Some episodes span 2-3 days.

[Galinda]

I think the only way we would see a Juliet defection is if she decides that her chances of getting off the Island are better with the Jack/Losties than by continuing to cooperate with Ben and the Others.

For me at least, Juliet's motivation was the most interesting thing to me about this episode. In her flashbacks, she is desperate to get off the Island, and would do anything to go home. And everything she does in her fertility research, and what she does for Ben and the Others, is so she can earn her ticket home. But what I want to know is what is her motivation now, now that the sub has exploded, and she has (seemingly) no way off the Island? What is she to gain from betraying Jack and the Losties? They already have the information that they need, Jack already removed Ben's tumor, they've let Walt go, and they're presumably under Locke's guidance as they discover the "faith" side of the Island. What's in the Losties camp that Ben wants now? Baby Aaron? :eek:


didn't danielle say that she gave birth on the island? so when juliet said that claire was the only woman to give birth and live, did she not know about danielle or did she just lie?.

Maybe Ben, because he was born on the Island, wants to surround himself with a "family" that was also born on the Island. That would explain why Alex has been raised as Ben's daughter. It could also explain the Others interest in Aaron. :confused: Just a thought.


I guess the only way it couldn't have debunked that theory is if Ben was lying. If he staged the whole thing, had Patchy dig up all the old news bites and stuff from when the plane went down as well as show an old tape of Rachel. It's possible to have a newspaper from the day the plane went down, or to have faked one or to have digitally edited (though doubtful based on the outdated equipment they have) the date on the newspaper on the old tape of Rachel. Or Ben would have known to film Rachel on that day because he would have known that eventually Juliet would want to know about Rachel and he'd have to show her. This could be only be IF a timewarp thing is in fact going on, and Ben knew from having lived the time loop before, when the plane would go down and when Juliet would reach her breaking point. Or, Ben could have known because he seems to have some "Walt" like abilities, things he wants to occur do, and he seems to know things that are going to happen (like Walt knew not to open the Hatch).

My boyfriend said the same thing last night. What if the whole Rachel and her son video feed was a fabrication, and that she's not better, and doesn't have a son, etc. The Others definitely (especially Ben) know how to manipulate. And with their access to advanced computers and technology, it'd probably be pretty easy to fake, as a means of pacifying Juliet and keeping her on the Island. I'm not sure if I'm on board with this theory, but it could back up the "Man behind the Curtain" theory about Ben. He could be alluding to this all-powerful, miracle-working do-gooder (ie, Jacob), but behind the curtain is this shriveled, dumpy little man, with questionable intentions.

But, if the video feed was live and real, then who the hell was filming Rachel? The Others have contacts/workers on the main land- very interesting if you think about how much info the Others have on the Losties.


I thought this was one of the best episodes ever. It confirmed a few of the theories that people have said on this forum: Juliett is a plant, the island has healing powers, and JACOB IS ALIVE!!

I liked the episode, too! And Juliet is my least favorite character on the Island (followed closely by the Jack of late) :rolleyes:

[James]

I thought this was a fantastic episode! But there's a "missing peice". When Ben talks about Jacob and "not doubting him!" to Juliet, she she seems pretty convinced. This is a flashback shown after the one of her arriving on the island. So what happened in between? Hopefully Juliet will get a flashback in Season 4 to reveal more about this too! But yeah, I was totally convinced by Juliet! She is an amazing character! Jack is kind of an idiot for trusting her. When he asked Charlie if he "trusted him", I was practically screaming at the TV, "Noooooo!!" I got chills when Juliet did the whole smooth "I find it ironic that you two are the moral police around here!" monologue to Sayid and Sawyer. And when Sayid was so haunted by her word that all she had to do was gently pry the case of medical supplies out of his hand. Great stuff! I did find the whole Juliet-Goodwin relationship in the flashbacks odd for some reason, though.

[Luna]

Great episode! I'm a huge Juliet fan whether she's evil or not. However, I'm still holding out hope that she's not!

Aren't there 6 episodes left? Everyone keeps saying 5, but I count 6.

I love Ben for so many reasons and one is that he makes me laugh. I loved the scene when he and Juliet were getting close to the Flame and he tried to call Mikhail on the walkie talkie and he didn't answer and he yelled out for Mikhail not to shoot them!

[Luna]

I did find the whole Juliet-Goodwin relationship in the flashbacks odd for some reason, though.

I knew there was something I was forgetting about. Shouldn't Juliet be pretty upset that Goodwin was killed if she was sleeping with him??????

[jaelae]

Yes. There are 6 left. Yesterday's preview said there are 5 left until the finale episode. And tv.com lists 6 more.

[Overlord]

Is there any connection between Ben and the telekinetic powers of Carrie in the King book which garnered quite a bit of attention in this episode. Could Ben possess powers similar to Carrie and which would explain his ability to effect the crash of the plane?

[Shepherd Emperor]

After a night's rest and time to think it over...

I'd like a little more on the Juliet-Goodwin relationship. What was her response at finding him to have been killed? She may well have a HUGE grudge against the Losties in general even if it was a Tailie that offed him.

If we follow out the Aaron-is-Ben thing, that possibility (I'm not signing on just yet) would mean he knows how the Losties helped/screwed things up "last time", since he was born in 2004 and at some point moved backward in time. This would give him a demi-god's authority to mess with people based on actions they have yet to take. He would know the Losties better than they know themselves in some ways because he would have grown up with their old geezer selves. It would also explain the mind games as he verifies what made them tick in 2004 and does things to make them aware of what he wants rumbling in their heads. Then again maybe he isn't Aaron, just a major SOB.

[Dharma Ranch Dressing]

Most of my thoughts have already been mentioned by previous posters. BUT my favorite part of tonight's episode was Sayid's statement to Juliet that he wants answers. FINALLY! Although I know we won't get all the answers in one episode, it's refreshing to hear Sayid ask.

I can forsee a Sayid & Sawyer showdown with Jack over Juliet...which leads me to wonder if Jack might be in on the con with Juliet. He seemed awfully unconvincing when Kate approached him about his time with the Others. I think we must think of Jack with a large degree of suspicion for the rest of the season. I'm not convinced that he's working with Juliet yet, but it sure would be interesting...

[Freckles!]

Remember when the Others claimed they had implanted a pacemaker in Jack? What if they had implanted (instead) something similar to what Claire has? Some sort of mind-control device or something, since he seems to be under the Others' spell right now.

I was thinking about that last night. Also, the mention of taking blood samples kind of piqued my interest. Whose blood did they take? Just Claire's, or some of the other Losties, too?

[Man_Of_Faith]

awesome episode, i must agree.....i was waiting for someone to bring that up! i really don't think that ben is her real father tho....at i least i hope he isnt!Yeah, I also don't think he is, never have - since Danielle said she had Alex not too long after arriving on the island.

When I said, "if Ben is her father, where/when was she conceived?" it wasn't a question as if I believed he is. I don't. And also I've been wondering why a scientist (Danielle) would be traveling around on an expedition while in late stages of pregnancy.

------
Sayid and Sawyer a team... love it! :D
------

[i sell seals!]

[Quote]Maybe Ben, because he was born on the Island, wants to surround himself with a "family" that was also born on the Island. That would explain why Alex has been raised as Ben's daughter. It could also explain the Others interest in Aaron. :confused: Just a thought.

i'm wondering more why danielle didn't die if she gave birth on the island. did juliet not know that danielle had done that, or was juliet lying about everyone dying at the end of pregnancy until claire?

[Man_Of_Faith]

i'm wondering more why danielle didn't die if she gave birth on the island. did juliet not know that danielle had done that, or was juliet lying about everyone dying at the end of pregnancy until claire?Exactly. Wondering the same things. Did Danielle get 'the shots' too? It seems Juliet figured out that the 'problem' occurred at conception, but then why did Claire need treatment? Obviously she didn't, because Danielle didn't (or she did receive them, but didn't know about it).

[estaman]

What's in the Losties camp that Ben wants now? Baby Aaron? :eek:


That's an important question. I thought perhaps the sequence that she looked at the Losties when we see building her shelter and going over the plan with Ben would reveal their interest: Jin and some random Lostie, then Hurley and Sun, then Desmond, then Claire and Charlie and Aaron and Jack.

My first thought was they are interested in Desmond. We still don't have any background information on the relationship (if any) between Kelvin, Radzinsky, and Desmond and the Others. I find it very odd that the Others have essentially occupied/utilized every Dharma station on the Island but have not had anything to do with the Swan.

[estaman]

I love Ben for so many reasons and one is that he makes me laugh. I loved the scene when he and Juliet were getting close to the Flame and he tried to call Mikhail on the walkie talkie and he didn't answer and he yelled out for Mikhail not to shoot them!

Yeah, I loved that scene too. Even though Mikhail is an Other he is kind of the crazy loner of the group, more comfortable by himself in the Flame that with other people.

[Robbo]

awesome episode, i must agree.....i was waiting for someone to bring that up! i really don't think that ben is her real father tho....at i least i hope he isnt!

I really don't think Ben is Alex's real father. I think Alex was conceived off the island, Danielle gave birth to her on the island (survived like Claire), but Ben stole her in an attempt to manipulate the Others into thinking that he/the Others CAN give birth to children.

I think it's just through Ben's manipulation for his own powers over the Others to have a child when no one else can.

[estaman]

Exactly. Wondering the same things. Did Danielle get 'the shots' too? It seems Juliet figured out that the 'problem' occurred at conception, but then why did Claire need treatment? Obviously she didn't, because Danielle didn't (or she did receive them, but didn't know about it).

Well, it depends on how much we believe Juliet. She says that even though Claire conceived off of the Island, that Claire was showing the same problems as the Island women based on the blood samples that Ethan took from her post-crash. Either Juliet is lying about Claire or the problem doesn't have anything to do with whether the conception occurs on/off the Island.

[funkmaniac]

Is anyone else not really sure if Juliette's really "evil" at the moment? I mean, it looks like she's acting out Ben's plan, but look at her face when they went through it. She might be going with it at the moment, but I can totally see her having her own agenda and maybe turning against Ben. She surely has reason to hate him. Anyway, I wonder what will happen in 7 days, when Ben said they'll meet again.

[lubrano]

i think the problem does begin at conception, claire sickness and subsequent treatment was because of ben's implant and nothing else.

[Car Ramrod]

can someone shoot me a link for next week's promo? I wanted to look at it again.

Much Appreciated

[KittyLili114]

can someone shoot me a link for next week's promo?
Here is the thread with the link to the promo: Spoiler: Catch-22 Promo (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=3888). :)

[Caladan]

OK, question about the symbol on the tree. I feel I've seen it before IRL. Is it a symbol from an ancient written language? I wonder if it's a clue to who may have lived on the island before, and who may have built the statue with the 4 toes.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x16-oneofus/2/normal_oneofuscap-654.jpg

[aftershock]

If you take out the vertical line in the middle of the symbol it becomes the astrological symbol for Pisces. Might be why it looks familiar

[enoch]

sawyer, kate and sayid are the only thing the show has going for it now....and hurley...

i can only hope jack is doubley up to something on juliet and knows whats up.

either way, juliet seems like either a fool (being totally conned/manipulated by ben) or has her own plan. i can only hope the latter, but this is lost....

...and at this stage in the game, i'd have much rather seen sayid and sawyer torture juliet and get some damn answers....how convenient also when jack is finally having a talk with the camp, claire interuppts the damn party with her stupid implant ....

i also think the overall timing/planning/execution of the implant in claire is a bit suspect? i could be wrong, but was ben saying ethan planted that chip/gizmo, and they could control it from anywhere and "set it off" ??? seems odd to have any foresight to do such a thing. i mean, they didn't *plan* on claire being rescued, so why implant the chip? if they do that with everyone they capture, then we bet jack, kate and sawyer have them..

more questions, and i like it better when the others are getting beat down and buried :-)

sorry, but it reminds me of that lame movie "escape from LA"..where they implant snake with the flu ;-)

[enoch]

exactly, so ben says this to juliet we know in the pablo episode...so juliet must not be that stupid to not realize he did the same thing to her. (i think faking the medical report, cuz if jacob could cure cancer in the outside world...well, that would just be stupid, and a jump the shark goodbye lost moment for me personally)......

so, ben knows juliet can't leave, because she'll find out he IS a liar when her sister says, "what, i never had a remission"....(something that seems to be special to ben to make people think he is not. it is clear he is. lie or manipluation, same thing. look at how he "handled" locke. he lied about not wanting the sub blown up ;-)).

the whole Jacob and Smokey are two areas/storylines that are wearing increasingly thin with this fan.....

screw Jacob, I'd put Sayid and Sawyer up against Jacob anyday. bring him on.




Like Ben himself said, find out what they are emotionally vested in and twist. It was no secret what Juliet was emotionally vested in from her first flashback.

[enoch]

i'd bet kate is preggo's, too. did you see that look on her face when juliet said all pregnant woman die at childbirth.

sawyer's gonna be daddy to both kate and that other girl, which would estbalish some, albeit minor, irony in kate's flashback with her.

we are getting almost like daytime soap opera's now.....please say it ain't so.

i like it more when mr. ecko was around beating people with his stick :-)

now it's all baby making, and mind games....




But now there's Sun to think about...

[enoch]

wasn't Alex, Russo's child born on the island???


hmm.....good point. This inability to birth on the island is either A) a recent development, B) Ben is lying about where he was born(which i doubt), or C) he really was and that's why he's a high-ranking other. he was a miracle.

gaah! so many questions. all in all, I really liked this episode. too bad Juliet seems to be on the evil side. I was beginning to trust her. anyone else think they might have her defect to the losties at some point?

[lostinri]

Just watched the episode-haven't read all the chats yet but I have to go to work so I'll get my thoughts out and catch up tomorrow.
Alex was born 13 years before Juliet got to the island-maybe she doesnt know about Danielle. Ben could have made up some story about her being born off the island.
Maybe they know about Sawyer killing someone in Australia because they drugged him and he spilled his guts. No one knows what they really did to him before the white bunny incident.
WHERE ARE ROSE AND BEN? Has anyone read any blurbs about the actors and where they are? Are they busy doing other things or is there a reason we aren't seeing them?
I think Juliet is a wild card- she seems so angry and bitter that she could change her mind at any time about who's side she's on.

[enoch]

i could be wrong, but isn't that because desmond and that other military guy were in there and armed to the teeth :-). . . and, they didn't have jon locke around to blow it open :)

QUOTE=estaman;96905] I find it very odd that the Others have essentially occupied/utilized every Dharma station on the Island but have not had anything to do with the Swan.[/QUOTE]

[plkrtn]

All this talk about 7 episodes = 7 days.
We all know we are gonna see Locke in about 3 episodes time, so its safe to say that we'll definitely get our 7 days in well before the end of the series. Remember the events involving Juliet and Ben's talk happened 2 days before the episode we saw ended, so even if 7 episodes = 7 days, 1 week would be episode 21, the first of the two parter!

[i sell seals!]

OK, question about the symbol on the tree. I feel I've seen it before IRL. Is it a symbol from an ancient written language? I wonder if it's a clue to who may have lived on the island before, and who may have built the statue with the 4 toes.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x16-oneofus/2/normal_oneofuscap-654.jpg

this is the same symbol they burned onto juliet.


i also think the overall timing/planning/execution of the implant in claire is a bit suspect? i could be wrong, but was ben saying ethan planted that chip/gizmo, and they could control it from anywhere and "set it off" ??? seems odd to have any foresight to do such a thing. i mean, they didn't *plan* on claire being rescued, so why implant the chip? if they do that with everyone they capture, then we bet jack, kate and sawyer have them..

i'm beginning to believe that alex is more involved with the deviousness of things than we thought. when she set claire free, it seemed like she was doing her a favor. now it seems like that was part of the plan all along so that they could trigger claire to puke blood when they wanted her to.

[m88]

One thing we know for sure is that the Others (at the very least Ben) are operating on a long time scale. He implanted Claire with a chip that causes her to have a medical reaction, which can then be cured by medicine left for Juliet, so she can get in with the Others. This "plan" was hatched far before it could ever take effect. How many other backup plans exist?

I don't get the time warp theory, unless it is a time loop. Then the entire island has to be travelling in time. And if Aaron is Ben, there would be an infinite number of him. Time moving at different speeds is possible and doesn't have as many problems with it.

Was the kidnapping of children a forced adoption? If no one can conceive, it is a possibility.

Juliet said the women's bodies start attacking the babies and it ends up killing the mother. But what she doesn't say is that every birth was caused using her fertility treatments. The problem is not that woman can conceive but die during childbirth, because Juliet is a fertility doctor. They would have found another doctor or scientist with knowledge of that distinct medical condition, if it were the case.

Juliet's problem is that the mother's reject the pregnancies and die on the island. Therefore, an excellent test subject is someone who has conceived off the island but then comes to the island. Clearly, Danielle, Claire, had no problem, but they came late in pregnancy. Sun may be the best test subject.

If Ben really was born on the island, and especially if he was conceived, then I'm not surprised he can get cancer because he would likely be immune to the island's powers. After Chernobyl, many people got cancers, but children born after the disaster mutated and have normal cancer rates. Something like that may be taking place on the island.

[aftershock]

this is the same symbol they burned onto juliet.

Hmmm... I guess it is. Juliet's brand looks slightly different, but I guess with scaring and it being a pretty fresh "mark" the crescents or whatever you wanna call them on the sides seem to meet in the middle.

[nacobia]

When Juliet wakes up on the sub, before she exits there's a brief shot of a couple of guys sitting at a table. I'm almost positive the one with his back turned is Michael. What could this mean? I doubt he's working with the others. Maybe he was just one of the submarine crew and didn't know anything about the island.


sorry I don't know how to post images. could someone else post a screenshot of the scene?

[i sell seals!]

it's the same dude that's been in the background of a lot of scenes. has hair similar to michael's, but is not him.

[flux3000]

When Juliet wakes up on the sub, before she exits there's a brief shot of a couple of guys sitting at a table. I'm almost positive the one with his back turned is Michael. What could this mean? I doubt he's working with the others. Maybe he was just one of the submarine crew and didn't know anything about the island.


sorry I don't know how to post images. could someone else post a screenshot of the scene?

I'm looking at it now (don't know how to do a screenshot right now)... I think it's just a black guy. Not convinced it's Michael.

[flux3000]

Did anyone notice that little awkward moment when Juliet told Ben that he had a tumor? His reply was "you just told me I have cancer"..."No, I told you you have a tumor". This leads me to believe Ben was expecting her to come and tell him that he had cancer. He already knew it.

Here's something far out: Maybe the plan was to gain Juliet's complete trust through a scheme where he somehow created the tumor inside his own body (maybe he knew he could recover from it). Dunno if that's realistic, as it probably wasn't very pleasant for him to go under the knife to remove it. Anyway, he's quite aware that Juliet will be in hysterics if she finds out that, after all this, he himself has developed cancer. Then, after proving that her sister was in fact cancer-free, she is more elated than ever and her trust and dedication to him is strengthened. It's got some holes in the logic, I know... but it does seem like something that Ben might do.

[Lost44]

So, if Juliet has been involved in an elaborate deception all along, could her trial also have been "staged," as well as her shooting and killing of, er, uh, umm, (dang, brain cramp, forgot his name), on the beach in front of Kate & Sawyer? We may basically have to assume that everything the Losties have seen from the Others has been staged for their benefit. :rolleyes:

And the symbol on the tree does resemble the symbol on Juliet's back, but I'm not convinced they are meant to signify the same thing. I do think it's interesting that someone mentioned that the symbol on the tree resembled the Pisces symbol with an additional line through the middle. Isn't Pisces the sign of the twins? (As in Bad Twin?) And perhaps the additional line through the middle is dividing the twins? :confused:

Loved the episode and soooooo looking forward to the next and the next and the next, but already dreading the wait between this season and the next! :eek:

[Stoko]

Did anyone else notice the location of the flashback scene where Ben told Juliet her sister's cancer had returned, and that he'd cure it if she stayed? It looked a lot to me like the cove (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Cove), where Kelvin hid The Elizabeth and also where he died.

But if Juliet came to the island three years ago, and so did Desmond, then six months after that, surely the boat would be there in the background? However Kelvin got it from wherever he found it to that cove, surely it didn't take him that long.

[Caladan]

Hmmm... I guess it is. Juliet's brand looks slightly different, but I guess with scaring and it being a pretty fresh "mark" the crescents or whatever you wanna call them on the sides seem to meet in the middle.

It looks a little different to me. As you say, the scarring makes it kind of hard to tell.

Still, that doesn't explain the possible meaning of the symbol, if there is one. They generally do have hidden meanings for many things, so I'm guessing the symbol does too.

[CurbFan]

Did anyone else notice the location of the flashback scene where Ben told Juliet her sister's cancer had returned, and that he'd cure it if she stayed? It looked a lot to me like the cove (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Cove), where Kelvin hid The Elizabeth and also where he died.

I doubt it was the same place. Islands have lots of coves and beaches and rocks and all that stuff. Besides, unless my eyes were playing tricks, the rocks that Juliet and Ben were on were black-ish, the ones Kelvin died on were brown.

[hois]

Why must Ben warn Mikhail that he and Juliet are approaching? Is Mikhail trigger happy because he guards the communication hub and they don't want even fellow Others to access it? Or are they protecting themselves from other factions on the island (as the plane had just crashed that day, I'm assuming the extreme security was not due to the plane survivors, but to protect them from some other group)?

[CurbFan]

I think The Purge is what started his paranoia/trigger happy syndrome. It's obviously a big deal, so whatever it was would be enough to make Mikhail on edge that he would shoot people if he didn't know who they were or if they didn't indentify themselves.

[Get Lost]

After watching this episode I have a strange feeling Juliet was not 'marked' to signify she was out of 'the others' group but that she was marked to prove she was an 'other'.

I dont have anything to back this up as a fact but just a feeling I got.

[i sell seals!]

After watching this episode I have a strange feeling Juliet was not 'marked' to signify she was out of 'the others' group but that she was marked to prove she was an 'other'.

I dont have anything to back this up as a fact but just a feeling I got.

i totally agree that the mark was not to outcast her. i think it put her into the higher eschlons of the others somehow. how that plays out with her leaving the island with jack, though, i don't know.

[slyce23]

Alas, poor Jack, he said it himself, Juliet will do _anything_ to get off of the Island including betraying the newly trusting Jack and the rest. I think the only way we would see a Juliet defection is if she decides that her chances of getting off the Island are better with the Jack/Losties than by continuing to cooperate with Ben and the Others.

agreed. And that might lead to an interesting finale. If Juliet ended up stuck in the middle of a huge Lostie-Other war(I'm hoping!).

One other thing: Did anyone else think the whole plane-crash scene was odd? They seemed shocked at first to see the plane-crashing. Then, after they send Ethan and Goodwin off, it looked like everyone went back to their normal routine. :confused:

[crackintosh]

When Juliet wakes up on the sub, before she exits there's a brief shot of a couple of guys sitting at a table. I'm almost positive the one with his back turned is Michael. What could this mean? I doubt he's working with the others. Maybe he was just one of the submarine crew and didn't know anything about the island.


sorry I don't know how to post images. could someone else post a screenshot of the scene?

I don't think its him (re-watching it on ABC.com), but His tee-shirt looks like a DHARMA Design. It is from the bottom part of the station logos.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/crackintosh/insub.jpg

Just thought Id point it out. and post the screen cap.;)

[cueball]

i'd bet kate is preggo's, too. did you see that look on her face when juliet said all pregnant woman die at childbirth.

she looked at sun when juliet said that. Kate is the only one who knows.

also , i think Ben was surprised at finding out he had a tumor. Most people would assume from an xray that a tumor is cancerous.. a biopsy would tell them otherwise. Anyway, by him finding out about the tumor leads me to believe that he felt a little deceived because he may not have been born on the island, thus he is susceptible to the ailments from the outside.

[MenTaLPiRacY]

Also the part where she was eating icecream WOWZERS!

[Dwyn2435]

OK, question about the symbol on the tree. I feel I've seen it before IRL. Is it a symbol from an ancient written language? I wonder if it's a clue to who may have lived on the island before, and who may have built the statue with the 4 toes.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x16-oneofus/2/normal_oneofuscap-654.jpg

Looks like a Russian Cyrillic letter, the zheh, Жж.

[Car Ramrod]

Also the part where she was eating icecream WOWZERS!

I'm gonna have to agree with you on that. Juliet is pretty darn good looking, especially in a dirty tank top and also eating ice cream naked. Wonder what flavor it was.

[MenTaLPiRacY]

I'm gonna have to agree with you on that. Juliet is pretty darn good looking, especially in a dirty tank top and also eating ice cream naked. Wonder what flavor it was.

i was imagining it was me...

[hank quinlan]

the way it appears now...the others aren't responsible for bringing the losties to the island. when does that third party make itself known? other than their use of smokey the bear.

[fenwar]

That's right, we don't totally know. Juliet knew that Sawyer had shot and killed a man in cold blood before getting on the plane, and nobody knew that except him. So, the flame was only the means of communication to receive the knowledge, and not the source of it.

Hibbs may have known what Sawyer had done too...


I know this has been mentioned once or twice in this thread, but no one's really attacked it yet. They obviously were able to obtain the manifest for the island and basic background information from Patchy's research, yet how do they know so much about each person? How did Juliet, for instance, know about (paraphrasing) "Sayid in Basra" or "Sawyer killing a man the night before the flight"?? Does anyone get the feeling that this is where some sort of time travel or island 'powers' figure into the equation?

I simply took it as "they have a lot of people working for them off the Island too"... although of the present number we've only seen Richard and Ethan, going back and forth from the Island, I imagined the research was carried out by various agents. (People like Richard Malkin who seem to be manipulating the Losties before they even got on the plane.) Hibbs could be one of them, or it could be that whoever was researching James Ford looked up his business associates and asked a few questions.


Well, it depends on how much we believe Juliet. She says that even though Claire conceived off of the Island, that Claire was showing the same problems as the Island women based on the blood samples that Ethan took from her post-crash. Either Juliet is lying about Claire or the problem doesn't have anything to do with whether the conception occurs on/off the Island.

We know Juliet is lying. All the problems occured during the pregnancy because the womens' bodies (did anyone actually say "immune system" in the episode?) attacked their children. Once the child has been born there is presumably no reason for this to happen.


i think the problem does begin at conception, claire sickness and subsequent treatment was because of ben's implant and nothing else.

I agree. It might be that this is when the problem starts because the embryo is treated as a bunch of "invading cells" and attacked. It seems to make sense, as that could be the same mechanism by which the Island also cures cancer (another set of "invading cells"). Locke's repair job is something different but this makes sense to me anyway.

Anyway. Claire was fine, she gave birth and there was no further reason for her to be ill. (It might still be true that Ethan's injections actually saved her life, while she was still pregnant.)

[cueball]

Juliet is pretty darn good looking, especially in a dirty tank top and also eating ice cream naked. Wonder what flavor it was.

mmmm... looked like mint chocolate chip to me....

[CurbFan]

One other thing: Did anyone else think the whole plane-crash scene was odd? They seemed shocked at first to see the plane-crashing. Then, after they send Ethan and Goodwin off, it looked like everyone went back to their normal routine. :confused:

Well, what could they do? Ben gave Goodwin and Ethan their jobs, Juliet and Ben went to see Mikhail to get info, not much else could be done.


she looked at sun when juliet said that. Kate is the only one who knows.

Do you mean Kate is the only one that knows Sun is pregnant? If so, that's wrong, atleast Bernard, Sawyer, Jack and Jin (obviously) know.


Also the part where she was eating icecream WOWZERS!

Just me that finds Juliet to be very... meh?

[jdj]

Did anyone think it was odd that, when Ben and Juliet were looking at the live feed of Juliet's sister in Miami, it was daytime in Miami AND on the Lost Island supposedly somewhere in the South Pacific on the other side of the world? Is that even possible? Was the video another one of Ben's scams or did the producers mess up?

[CurbFan]

Well, earlier Juliet hadn't noticed that his sisters cancer form had a mans info on it because she was so distressed, it's possible that she wouldn't notice something like the time of day after just finding out her sister was alive and had the kid and what not, if it was a con.

[lostinri]

Julet's power in the last episode with kate made me think she had some sort of military backround- to pay for school maybe? Why would a meek fertility Dr. know how to fight, and keep getting her shoulder pulled out of the socket.

Also-what if this Jack is not the real one? Maybe Ben created him in his magic box, or he's smoky. That would be an awesome last shot of the season- Jack locked in a cell with John's Dad.

[CurbFan]

There isn't an actual box that can create things out of nothing. And I'd imagine they give people combat training when they get to the island, because the Juliet we saw in Not In Portland definitely wasn't as tough as the one who whooped Kate.

[Shepherd Emperor]

Did anyone think it was odd that, when Ben and Juliet were looking at the live feed of Juliet's sister in Miami, it was daytime in Miami AND on the Lost Island supposedly somewhere in the South Pacific on the other side of the world? Is that even possible? Was the video another one of Ben's scams or did the producers mess up?
Depending on the time of day where Rachel was it is possible. Could have been morning in Miami (missed that. They said Miami?) and late afternoon in the South Pacific depending on how far west. They're not quite fully on opposite sides.

I checked this site
http://www.worldtimezone.com/
The hour differences for the South Pacific look to be only 4-6 hours, depending. Even less than I thought.

[thklinge]

Jack always comes out on top, that's why I love him. I'm guessing he probably know that trusting Juliet isn't the smartest move and he's probably watching her closely. He is right in that she wants to go home badly so parhaps he thinks he can convert her? She seems likely to switch sides at times.

Also, when Claire started bleeding from the nose;

Jack: "How long has she been like this?"
Charlie: "uuh, she started feeling bad this morning."
Jack: "Before we got back, was she showing any symptoms at all?"
Charlie: "No, she was fine!"


Jack knows how to add two and two. I'm pretty sure he knows that Claires sudden illness, that only Juliet can fix, is more than just a freak accident. He knows that somethings up. From the preview I'm guessing he's doing his best to make her feel welcome in an attempt to convert her from other to lostie and make a mess out of whatever Ben has planned.

[CurbFan]

I have to disagree, I think Jack has a weak heart and is being conned. Of course it is possible that Juliet is conning both Jack and Ben.

Jack should start listening to Sayid!

[T35513R]

Possible that, early on, they drugged the losties and extracted info from them that way. That's how they could know about Sawyer's killing prior to the crash (he told them). I mean, they obviously have a way to gas people to knock them out, it wouldn't have been too hard to do this to the entire camp back in the day.

Don't you also wonder about why Jack was found unconscious for so long? I think Locke's totally bullshitting the Others, especially his reaction to Kate when she asks about Danielle (he's got this like, "Why TF did you say that" pause when she asks him).

I think Locke came back to Jack to let him know that Juliet was going to try and play him, which is why there's signs of a struggle and Jack appears to be "out" for such a long time.

[enoch]

i agree. i think the mark has something to do with protection for her from something when she is on the "outside"....


i totally agree that the mark was not to outcast her. i think it put her into the higher eschlons of the others somehow. how that plays out with her leaving the island with jack, though, i don't know.

[enoch]

i agree. jack is basically using the strategy: "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer".

with juliet, they have at least a chance to take a close hostage, or mine some information.

without her, they really have nothing but back to square one with WTF is going on.


Jack always comes out on top, that's why I love him. I'm guessing he probably know that trusting Juliet isn't the smartest move and he's probably watching her closely. He is right in that she wants to go home badly so parhaps he thinks he can convert her? She seems likely to switch sides at times.

Also, when Claire started bleeding from the nose;

Jack: "How long has she been like this?"
Charlie: "uuh, she started feeling bad this morning."
Jack: "Before we got back, was she showing any symptoms at all?"
Charlie: "No, she was fine!"


Jack knows how to add two and two. I'm pretty sure he knows that Claires sudden illness, that only Juliet can fix, is more than just a freak accident. He knows that somethings up. From the preview I'm guessing he's doing his best to make her feel welcome in an attempt to convert her from other to lostie and make a mess out of whatever Ben has planned.

[daedelus]

The carving and the scar are a match! What is it?

I reckon' on the tree it could be a distance marker, or a sign. It looks quite old to me.

Begs the question as to why it was burnt into Juliets back?

[Jerhun]

Also, when Claire started bleeding from the nose;

Jack: "How long has she been like this?"
Charlie: "uuh, she started feeling bad this morning."
Jack: "Before we got back, was she showing any symptoms at all?"
Charlie: "No, she was fine!"


Jack knows how to add two and two. I'm pretty sure he knows that Claires sudden illness, that only Juliet can fix, is more than just a freak accident. He knows that somethings up. From the preview I'm guessing he's doing his best to make her feel welcome in an attempt to convert her from other to lostie and make a mess out of whatever Ben has planned.

I think something people have over looked with this scene is that Jack is a doctor and these are normal questions that doctors ask. Think about a person coming into an emergency room and starts bleeding from their nose or vomiting blood suddenly. What do you think the doctor is going to ask? Most likely the doctor is going to ask the same thing Jack asked, if they were experience symptoms before they got there. While Jack may know (or at least suspect) that the Others and/or Juliet have something to do with what happened to Claire, I think his question was just normal doctor type questions.....

Of course I could be totally wrong....this is Lost of course :p

[thklinge]

I think something people have over looked with this scene is that Jack is a doctor and these are normal questions that doctors ask. Think about a person coming into an emergency room and starts bleeding from their nose or vomiting blood suddenly. What do you think the doctor is going to ask? Most likely the doctor is going to ask the same thing Jack asked, if they were experience symptoms before they got there. While Jack may know (or at least suspect) that the Others and/or Juliet have something to do with what happened to Claire, I think his question was just normal doctor type questions.....

Of course I could be totally wrong....this is Lost of course :p


I agree that asking when the illness occured is a typical doctors question, but asking specifically if the symptoms came before or after Juliet entered the beach is like a doctor asking if you got sick before or after he got to work that day. It seems a bit off, and could be a clue.

However, as you say, this beeing lost, we're probably all wrong ;) Nothing is ever what it seem and I'm loving every second of it.

[bcre8ve]

I'm just glad they didn't let this whole Juliet deception thing go on for a lot more episodes. They easily could have. It was nice of them to have that little speal at the end there. However, since they did, I think they might be setting Juliet up to appear evil and then have her do something to help the losties, or maybe I'm just trying to think positively. Anyway, great episode!

I think you are on to something. The writers have to have a reason for not dragging this out. I have a feeling that she's going to have to make a decision about where her loyalyies lie. TPTB are answering a lot of questions here because they are about to open up a whole new can of questions.

[bcre8ve]

IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE PREVIEW FOR NEXT WEEK THEN DON'T READ THIS: I saw a flash in the preview of a book called ARDIL- 22. anyone know what that is?

"ARDIL- 22" is Portugese for "Catch 22"

[hank quinlan]

desmond centric episode coming up...penny's researchers speak portugese...hopefully we get some serious answers on that front. i thought last 2 epsiodes were mediocre.

[geonjorjany]

...i'm surprised no one else has said anything about this, but it isn't all that important, so whatever. but, when juliet wakes up on the sub, she jumps of the bed, barefoot, grabs her jacket and purse, and follows ethan to the ladder, where her shoes are suddenly on. just seems like a weird mistake to me. i guess you could (and will) argue that she put them on at some point between waking up and reaching the ladder, but i don't think so. i say just a minor error, but i could be wrong...

[Prawn Sacrifice]

I noticed that too geonjorjany.

I want to take this opportunity to say hello to this wonderful forum. I'm in London and have to wait until Sunday to see this amazing show. I don't know many people and I don't know anyone who watches Lost, so this place is a treat for me.

[Prawn Sacrifice]

I can forsee a Sayid & Sawyer showdown with Jack over Juliet...which leads me to wonder if Jack might be in on the con with Juliet. He seemed awfully unconvincing when Kate approached him about his time with the Others. I think we must think of Jack with a large degree of suspicion for the rest of the season. I'm not convinced that he's working with Juliet yet, but it sure would be interesting...

Not so sure about the Sawyid showdown but I've had similar thoughts about Jack "being in on the con" ... I keep thinking about a scene (few episodes back) when Jack tells Juliet that they will get off the island by 'working together'. Perhaps we'll see a flashback soon with Jack and Juliet making their plans (prior to their arrival back at the beach), which includes how they will doublecross the Others. This would make sense given the string of hurt running through the majority of Juliet's Other-centric flashbacks.

[razel]

Hey guys, new poster here! Just thought I'd throw my mix into this.. hopefully my first post doesn't sound too farfetched, but here's my take on everything.

People wondering about how Juliet knew about how Sawyer murdered that guy can only be speculated by how the island is occupied by unique individuals with unique gifts such as Juliet (baby implanting powers), Desmond (future predicting powers), Ethan and Goodwin (high class doctors). I think that Isabel girl (the chief of police) is good at what she does because she also has a unique power.. I think she can read minds.. the minute Jack stood up for Juliet at her trial, isabel seemed to impliment that she knew Jack was lying.. perhaps she can forsee how Sawyer killed that one guy and Sayid was a torturer without having to get Patchy to google this all up on the interweb the hard way!

Sooner or later this "magnificent man" that we all know as Jacob at this moment will be revealed in the upcoming episodes. Now we all know that Ben is self-serving, but sooner or later this "Magnificent Man" will be revealed as John Locke himself. His connection to the island is unique as we all know, plus all the little hints (scar on eyes, black gammon pieces covering his eyes, etc.) have always indicating how he may be evil, but episode after episode we have learned that he really is a decent guy who just wants to be part of something special. Ben and Patchy seemed to have indicated this several times.. first when Ben ask Locke if he was a genius.. or a genius living in some other guys shadow. Locke gets mad and Ben shuts the hell up like he should know better talking to Locke like that.. after all.. he's the coming messiah or prophet!

Of course we all know how important Ben is and how important he likes to think he is.. He's always taken kindly to Locke, but for some reason, he never really found a reason to attack him up until Locke blew up the sub.. now Ben knows he will begin to lose power, but Locke sort of shot himself in the foot.. he can easily turn that anger against Locke, and Ben can proclaim himself as "the one" which in the promo it shows like Locke was getting jumped by the others.

In the previous episode, it also talked about how Locke tried to give a good reference for Kate, but facts proved otherwise.. good reference for what though? Jacob's list! or should we say Locke's list?

[Seanlocke]

First post!

Two things to think about.

Juliet was sleeping with the dude that got speared in the chest. What if she becomes pregnant? :)

Also, The whole submarine deal. I saw sedatives. I saw an airport. I heard "Bumpy ride" and I saw straps. What if the airplane had the submarine on board and dropped it off when it was close to the island. (there could be no airstrip.)

I'm not saying the plane would drop off a sub at 30 thousand feet in the air, but it could get low enough to the sea and drop the sub into the water. Thus the straps and
"bumpy ride."

[Prawn Sacrifice]

People wondering about how Juliet knew about how Sawyer murdered that guy can only be speculated by how the island is occupied by unique individuals with unique gifts such as Juliet (baby implanting powers), Desmond (future predicting powers), Ethan and Goodwin (high class doctors). I think that Isabel girl (the chief of police) is good at what she does because she also has a unique power.. I think she can read minds.. the minute Jack stood up for Juliet at her trial, isabel seemed to impliment that she knew Jack was lying.. perhaps she can forsee how Sawyer killed that one guy and Sayid was a torturer without having to get Patchy to google this all up on the interweb the hard way!


I think the medical personal you've mentioned are really just 'gifted' in the more normal academic sense. The mind-reading gift is interesting but if it exists, I suspect Patchy (Mikhail) is more likely than Isabel to possess it; the moment where she confronts Jack about his 'lying' seems a natural reaction given she's been told the opposite by everyone else involved. Also Isabel doesn't just say 'why are you lying?' but 'why are you lying for her?' which perhaps is meant to reinforce a bond between Jack and Juliet (in Jack's mind). In a previous episode, during a dialogue between Patchy and John, Patchy says something like "The John I know was -" and then gets cut off by someone ... anyway, this might reinforce some power Patchy has (a power like the one you've described razel).

[Prawn Sacrifice]

Also, The whole submarine deal. I saw sedatives. I saw an airport. I heard "Bumpy ride" and I saw straps. What if the airplane had the submarine on board and dropped it off when it was close to the island. (there could be no airstrip.)

I'm not saying the plane would drop off a sub at 30 thousand feet in the air, but it could get low enough to the sea and drop the sub into the water. Thus the straps and "bumpy ride."

I'm wondering if the submarine is used at all ... perhaps it's just there for effect and to (as Ben has said) "maintain the illusion of being able to go home"?

[razel]

There's just something about the way Isabel interpreted the tattoos on Jack's arm, it's as if she knew everything about him by just looking at them.. not to mention Jack was tattooed or "marked" by Achara, the visionary girl from Thailand who can see who people truly are and "marks" them the same way Juliet was marked by Isabel.. I think Isabel and Achara share the same gift.

Patchy could very well share the same gift too, but he's just more technical about it, and even Ben, but he's more into mind games. the same way Desmond shares his gift with with the old woman who sold him the ring. I find it a little farfetched that the Others determine if you're on this "list" by simply looking at your bad credit report online or have top secret access to Big Brothers database. I think there's mind readers on that island that determine who gets to be put on the list by reading their inner characters.

I yanked that episode up.. patchy says "the locke I knew was par.." then gets cut off, as if to say that the John Locke he knew was paralyzed before he came to the island. I don't think Patchy knew him from before, but his eyes seem to flutter to Locke when he mentions this "magnificent man" we all want to know about. like he knows what kind of person Locke used to be, but also knows what he's more capable of, which we'll soon see.

Anybody catch the episode in the first season when Jack found the waterfall? There was an old skeleton there that had a black and white rock in his pocket like the same backgammon pieces referenced to Locke in some episodes where Locke explains to Walt about the game and how it's the oldest game in history.. the series often has a religious trait with prophets and things like that.. I think Locke is like their version of the 2nd coming of Christ or Neo from the Matrix. Locke's similarities are much like this "magnificent man" that brought them all to the island.. we already know that Ben was born there, and people were living there for a long time, judging by the old skeleton Jack found or Juliet not knowing how smokey got there in the first place.

[Prawn Sacrifice]

Anybody catch the episode in the first season when Jack found the waterfall? There was an old skeleton there that had a black and white rock in his pocket like the same backgammon pieces referenced to Locke in some episodes where Locke explains to Walt about the game and how it's the oldest game in history.. the series often has a religious trait with prophets and things like that.. I think Locke is like their version of the 2nd coming of Christ or Neo from the Matrix. Locke's similarities are much like this "magnificent man" that brought them all to the island.. we already know that Ben was born there, and people were living there for a long time, judging by the old skeleton Jack found or Juliet not knowing how smokey got there in the first place.

Here's a lostpedia link to the skeletons I think you mean: Adam_and_Eve (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Adam_and_Eve). I quite like the scenario of the Others being like geeks-with-guns (barring some potentially militarised group within) deperately trying to understand an island at a scientific level ... whilst Locke just naturally gets the island on a spiritual one! I also love the notion of Locke leading them.

[razel]

I think so too! Locke came naturally as a leader right after Jack.. hence the quote by Ben. "Are you a genius? or the guy living in the shadow of a genius?" we were meant to believe that he'd be a natural born leader if Jack wasn't there, but I think Ben threw a double standard saying he is a genius or a "magnificent man", but just doesn't know it yet because the John Locke we all know used to work for a box company. Locke wants to be part of something special so badly, and he seems to be losing his grip with his own people with all the crazy talk he puts out, but the others seem to ravel in it. he already said goodbye to Kate as if he was ready to start his initiation with the others.. who knows.

[akela69]

Correct me if I am wrong. Did "Patchy" and "Ben" did not say that all communicaton with the outside world was nock down when the sky turn purple or pink, and the every time John try to punch a key the computer will respond with the same message. So if that happen, how they were able to show the video from Juliet's sister or gatter all other information after the plane went down, that it was after the discharge?

Just wondering...........................:confused:

[nobody]

It was a flashback to the time when flight 815 crashed, so the sky wasn't due to turn purple until the losties found the hatch and then decided to stop pressing the button.

[Seanlocke]

I'm wondering if the submarine is used at all ... perhaps it's just there for effect and to (as Ben has said) "maintain the illusion of being able to go home"?

I totally forgot about that. Who knows! I'll stick with my theory. Maintaining an illusion doesn't prove my theory false. It could just be a sub that was dropped off by the plane. To make it look as if they went by sub. But the sub can't make it back home.

[estaman]

Not so sure about the Sawyid showdown but I've had similar thoughts about Jack "being in on the con" ... I keep thinking about a scene (few episodes back) when Jack tells Juliet that they will get off the island by 'working together'. Perhaps we'll see a flashback soon with Jack and Juliet making their plans (prior to their arrival back at the beach), which includes how they will doublecross the Others. This would make sense given the string of hurt running through the majority of Juliet's Other-centric flashbacks.

I got that feeling when Jack told Juliet, "If Claire dies, I won't be able to protect you." Why is he protecting her? Discounting the "Jack's just a great guy" theory, he must be in on whatever plan Ben/Others came up with that had Juliet go to the beach. Perhaps they even explained the plan to Jack, and he determined that there was minimal risk of damage to the rest of the Losties. I just don't see a showdown or why else Jack would have to protect Juliet. If he has feelings for her/whatever, then if Juliet being there becomes a big issue, all Jack has to say is, "If she's not welcome here, then I'm not welcome here. Adios, muchachos!" If Sayid/Sawyer push the issue, then they potentially lose not only their leader but their doctor.

The way he said the line made me think if Juliet was forced to leave the beach, Jack wouldn't be going with her.

[Prawn Sacrifice]

... Locke wants to be part of something special so badly ...

Don't we all :)

[Prawn Sacrifice]

I got that feeling when Jack told Juliet, "If Claire dies, I won't be able to protect you." Why is he protecting her? Discounting the "Jack's just a great guy" theory, he must be in on whatever plan Ben/Others came up with that had Juliet go to the beach. Perhaps they even explained the plan to Jack, and he determined that there was minimal risk of damage to the rest of the Losties. I just don't see a showdown or why else Jack would have to protect Juliet. If he has feelings for her/whatever, then if Juliet being there becomes a big issue, all Jack has to say is, "If she's not welcome here, then I'm not welcome here. Adios, muchachos!" If Sayid/Sawyer push the issue, then they potentially lose not only their leader but their doctor.

The way he said the line made me think if Juliet was forced to leave the beach, Jack wouldn't be going with her.

Some good thoughts and analysis here estaman but I don't suspect a collobaration between Jack and the Others (though I'm still open to a Jack+Juliet one which part of your argument supports). The "If Claire dies, I won't be able to protect you" line is fairly natural and in keeping with Jack as a leader already under pressure from his people about bringing an Other into camp; he just saying that Claire's death would push things too far in everyone's eyes, that's all. Your post got me thinking about the times during the episode that Jack insisted upon the Losties to just trust him; between the lines, you might be able to read the following into these scenes: "Don't worry, I know I may appear crazy but I actually have Juliet and all Other problems covered!"

By the way, I like the hypothetical Jack line you've come up with ... "If she's not welcome here, then I'm not welcome here. Adios, muchachos!". Sounds like something Jack would say (well, apart from the 'Adios, muchachos!' part ... that's too much Sawyer to be Jack :D )

[GT3]

I've noticed that several people have said (including the wikipedia entry for the submarine) that Ethan said it would be a 'bumpy' or 'rough' ride. I believe he actually said the journey would be 'intense'. In my mind, I wouldn't necessarily assume that intense meant bumpy. That might be relevent.

Also, regarding the knowledge of the others. If they really did just know everything then I would have thought they would have revealed that Claire is Jack's half sister by now. Perhaps they are saving it for later but I think they are getting their information from a more conventional source so there are limits. If anyone's ever seen a good stage mind reader, you can see how much can be achieved with a little knowledge and some good deduction work.

[Prawn Sacrifice]

I've noticed that several people have said (including the wikipedia entry for the submarine) that Ethan said it would be a 'bumpy' or 'rough' ride. I believe he actually said the journey would be 'intense'. In my mind, I wouldn't necessarily assume that intense meant bumpy. That might be relevent.

Also, regarding the knowledge of the others. If they really did just know everything then I would have thought they would have revealed that Claire is Jack's half sister by now. Perhaps they are saving it for later but I think they are getting their information from a more conventional source so there are limits. If anyone's ever seen a good stage mind reader, you can see how much can be achieved with a little knowledge and some good deduction work.

As far as I can remember there were two separate instances where Ethan describes the journey: once at the point where Juliet is drugged (when Ethan mentions the intensity of the journey), and then when she comes to (I think Ethan mentions the bumpiness of the journey here).

I'm inclined towards the notion that the others use conventional methods of information gathering also. The Others do just seem to be really (really!) well-funded nerds don't they? And they increasingly *appear* to work from a scientific standpoint in all things; observing everything with nothing but the mind, logic and cold equations. Locke sees with his heart and soul, and understood the island the moment his feet touched the sand. I though Ben's metaphor about a magic box was quite unscientific, but perhaps not: I suppose the first thing a scientist would do with an unknown system under scrutiny (e.g. strange island) is to view it as a 'black box' and surmise about its inputs, outputs and internal function, according to scientific method.

[Cygnus]

when juliet first wakes up on the sub, you can here someone in the background saying 'get anything out of her?' i took this as a clue to how they get some of the more personal information. put them to sleep, then do stuff to them, likely some sort of hypnotism, possibly conventional, possibly not.

from lostpedia

15 represents the Magician. It symbolizes the power to rule, but more importantly, when appearing with the number 4 or 8, it symbolizes dark magic. In that case it represents the misuse of power through black magic, hypnosis, and mental suggestion to victimize others

[estaman]

Some good thoughts and analysis here estaman but I don't suspect a collobaration between Jack and the Others (though I'm still open to a Jack+Juliet one which part of your argument supports). The "If Claire dies, I won't be able to protect you" line is fairly natural and in keeping with Jack as a leader already under pressure from his people about bringing an Other into camp; he just saying that Claire's death would push things too far in everyone's eyes, that's all. Your post got me thinking about the times during the episode that Jack insisted upon the Losties to just trust him; between the lines, you might be able to read the following into these scenes: "Don't worry, I know I may appear crazy but I actually have Juliet and all Other problems covered!"

By the way, I like the hypothetical Jack line you've come up with ... "If she's not welcome here, then I'm not welcome here. Adios, muchachos!". Sounds like something Jack would say (well, apart from the 'Adios, muchachos!' part ... that's too much Sawyer to be Jack :D )

Thanks for the comments! It really was just a feeling when Jack said certain lines like I noted (and the other lines you quoted above) that he knows or is doing something more than he is letting on.

Regardless of whether Jack's going along with another deal with Ben/Others or not, I still believe that he's doing what he thinks is best for the Losties and the best chance of getting everyone off of the Island. And as a doctor, I'm sure that he knows that sometimes you have to take drastic action to save the patient (amputating a leg to save the whole person). The Losties may not like what he's doing now, but they may later see why Jack thought it was necessary.

[A good man, maybe great]

2 hours 35 minutes to go and I need to get one drink in me before Lost starts, it enhances the moment. I swear the past few weeks I have looked at the clock about halfway through praying for the episode goes on forever.


A Good Man

[habutom]

Are we any closer to getting answers? What about an anagram for MITTELOS?

Lost Time?

[kristuler]

grate episode. juliet as newcommer has brought some life to the show, because after season two is has almost get borred for many viewers so this new caracter brought lost back on the track

[GlassBallerina]

I just found Juilliet dodgy.. but the ending was good. Hence why i found her dodgy..

& is the symbol that Juilliet get burnt onto her the same as that was on that tree?? Near the medical box thingy.

[CurbFan]

From LP...


Juliet's mark has certain visual similarities to the tree mark but there is no evidence yet to conclude that they are the same symbol or what either symbol means.

:)

[AlaskaDave]

the thing i find really interesting about this episode (during a recent re-watch) was the comment Ben makes to Juliet when he firsts walks up to her on the rock (when he tells her Rachel's cancer is back):
...
BEN: Because if you do I will cure your sister's cancer.
JULIET: I'm supposed to take that on faith?
BEN: You've been here for six months. You've done extensive work-ups on all of us, have you seen even a trace of cancer?
...
this wording states that "all of us" (i.e., all the others) have had cancer. I know this point has been debated a bit before, but the wording of this is just so striking! I mean, they've all had cancer? why else would he use the phrasing "You've done extensive work-ups on all of us, have you seen even a trace of cancer?".

interesting!

:cool:

[CurbFan]

I assume work-ups meant tests. And when he said "have you seen even a trace of cancer?" surely it was rhetorical?

[AlaskaDave]

I assume work-ups meant tests. And when he said "have you seen even a trace of cancer?" surely it was rhetorical?

works = tests, no question.
Man, i just watched it again, and the way he phrases it reeks of them having cancer. :)

i may be out on a limb, but I'm pretty sure they all had cancer. Why else would he say "you've been here six months, you've done extensive work-ups on all of us, have you seen even a trace of cancer?" -- why bring that up if its not relevent to them having cancer?

i just wonder how this plays out in the overall mystery of the whole cancer-curing-island/jacob! :cool:

[CurbFan]

i may be out on a limb, but I'm pretty sure they all had cancer. Why else would he say "you've been here six months, you've done extensive work-ups on all of us, have you seen even a trace of cancer?" -- why bring that up if its not relevent to them having cancer?


Because, my Alaskan friend, Ben was trying to convince Juliet that Jacob would cure her sisters cancer if she stayed, by reminding her that nobody on the island has cancer he is reminding her that Jacob can cure cancer. That's how I read it anyway. :)

[LOST_KATE]

KittyLili114 i really love ur fat dancing kitty! and i think "One of Us" did answer alot of my questions

[LOST Trekman]

I loved this episode, it showed true drama and spirit. One of the best Season 3's in my opinion..

[jealousguy]

Correct me if I am wrong. Did "Patchy" and "Ben" did not say that all communicaton with the outside world was nock down when the sky turn purple or pink, and the every time John try to punch a key the computer will respond with the same message. So if that happen, how they were able to show the video from Juliet's sister or gatter all other information after the plane went down, that it was after the discharge?

Just wondering...........................:confused:

My theory on the video of Juliet's sister is that it was pre-taped and Ben rehearsed it to make it look like he was actually talking to Richard in the outside world.

In my S4, 108 minutes on the island = a day in the real world (the sun is simulated somehow, gotta work on that part), thus making every month on the island equivalent to about a year out there. Which would mean that Juliet would be watching this video a mere 3 months after she arrived on the island (3 years out there). This could be Ben killing two birds with one stone -- proving to Juliet that Rachel and baby are okay, and also proving to her that time is moving faster out there. (Rest assured I'm well aware of the dozens of problems with this one)

I was thinking this might also be why pregnancies on the island don't work, 'cause the babies are growing too fast (by the other timeline) and the mothers' bodies are trying to compensate.