05X10 "He's Our You" (Questions, Theories, Discussion)

[Dharma Ranch Dressing]

This thread is for discussion of the March 24th episode: "He's Our You"

Please see the "He's Our You" In-show Analysis & Chat thread for general "excitement" comments made during the airing.

For more information on this episode, please visit the Lostpedia Wiki page: He's Our You (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/He%27s_Our_You)

Please do not post ANY spoilers in this thread without marking them with the spoiler tags.
This includes any information from Promos - Ads - Trailers that are shown after the episode or at any other time.

For more information on what we consider a spoiler here, please see Lostpedia's Spoiler Policy. (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=1905)

Thanks and enjoy!

[Agent Graves]

What was the name of the book Ben gave to Sy?

[JOHN LOCKE&LOAD]

Jack never would've raised his hand. Shame on Sawyer.

[You Lost Me]

Wow! Great ep...people think Ben is dead right? no kid can survive a gunshot like that...he'll only survive if the island wants him

[Tinkerbell]

NO WAY did that just happen. Richard's gotta bring him back to life or something with voodoo magic.

[Manipulation]

Damn it!! The idiot killed off Lost's only good actor. !

[Agent Graves]

Gasp!

no S****!

Didn't see it coming.

[Bloodbath]

Great episode!

[higgy baby]

sister in law says book is PEACEFUL WARRIOR

[Tinkerbell]

For a second, I thought he was going to kill Jin, and I was really worried.

[lived]

The show wasn't lost-quality until the very last scene. That shot was epic.

[Mister Echo]

Guys.

Ben ain't dead, unless the plot calls for a catastrophic time paradox for some reason, and I heavily, heavily don't think that's coming.

[dharma_workman]

sister in law says book is PEACEFUL WARRIOR

hahaha the irony

[MinionOfEckerd]

A Separate Reality was the book that Ben gave Sayid...


BEFORE HE GOT SHOT!

[Switcheroou]

What was the name of the book Ben gave to Sy?

"another reality" or "a different reality" or some such title to poke fun at all us forum nerds

[Bezoar7]

I don't believe Ben is dead. After all of the "Whatever happened, happened" talk, Ben cannot die. I don't know if they meant to show it or not, but it looked like Ben was still breathing. I imagine that Jacob will save Ben.

[quadrophenic]

Meh...we all know Ben isn't dead as a kid because Ben isn't dead now...so there's no real drama there...

[Tinkerbell]

So was it Ben that drove the flaming van into the building?

[Ever Adrift]

NO WAY did that just happen. Richard's gotta bring him back to life or something with voodoo magic.

Didn't Ben tell Locke that the island had always healed him until he got that tumor that Jack removed? I assume that the island had already 'chose' Ben when Sayid shot him...

[Wagx99]

it looked like a fatal shot, right in the heart, no blood

[haner]

There's no freaking way Ben survived that shot. It was a perfect shot to the heart. Ben surviving would be absolutely lame.

[lostaddict12]

ZOMG!!!!!

Crazy. :D


Jack never would've raised his hand. Shame on Sawyer.

No. Sawyer knew what he was doing. Jack would have impulsively not raised his hand, but Sawyer thought it through and knew that it would work out.

[higgy baby]

this is really going to mess up spacetime... does ben cease to exist now as michael j fox started to disappear in Back to the Future?

[laurensav]

There's the WTFPOLARBEAR ending I've been craving!!!!!!

[Sayidfan33]

That was definately the best cliffhanger this season. WOW!! :D

[BeachBum96]

Shot is not dead! OK?
Whatever happens, happened...

[AshantilovesLOST]

The show wasn't lost-quality until the very last scene. That shot was epic.

epic, i say

[Flyin' High]

Woah, I really hope little Ben didn't die. If he did, then I am completely confused about the rules of time travel. :confused:

Awesome episode. I can't believe how easily "peace-lovin' DHARMA" is willing to torture. And I loved seeing more of young Ben. I felt they really humanized him tonight.

I just can't believe Sayid shot young Ben!

[myfourletterlie]

Oh my god... that was a really good episode.
SAyid shot a 14-year-old kid!
Who was only trying to help..
I don't care if it was Ben or not, that was messed up.

Sayid kind of let me down :(
But I hate Ben's dad even more now.. I wanted to give little Ben a hug :(
And I started laughing when Ben said he "thought Locke was murdered." No, really? You're the one who killed him.. wtf?
And I couldn't stop laughing when Sayid was laughing when he was tied to that tree...
I hate Radzinsky too.
'kay that's all the things I can think of right now :P
Totally loved this episode, though.
I was kind of hoping Sayid would shoot Ben's dad.. instead of Ben.

[MinionOfEckerd]

That was definately the best cliffhanger this season. WOW!! :D

Yeah, it better be all uphill from here. That last "shot" was insane.

[Bloodbath]

So was it Ben that drove the flaming van into the building?

I think so.

[Tinkerbell]

it looked like a fatal shot, right in the heart

You know how Ben shot Locke where his kidney should be, and Locke didn't die because he didn't have a kidney there?

Well clearly, Ben didn't die because he HAS NO HEART...

[BHN444]

the name of the book is 'a separate reality'. it's by carlos castenada. absolutely fantastic book.

[SeeYouInAnotherLifeBrotha]

i want Locke to kill Ben. I highly doubt Ben is dead here though.

Hmm i wonder where Sayid went off too... We need to see the future island episodes with Locke and Lapedus and Sun.

[MinionOfEckerd]

Woah, I really hope little Ben didn't die. If he did, then I am completely confused about the rules of time travel. :confused:

Awesome episode. I can't believe how easily "peace-lovin' DHARMA" is willing to torture. And I loved seeing more of young Ben. I felt they really humanized him tonight.

I just can't believe Sayid shot young Ben!

Torture?! That's truth serum. I'd say torture would be a little more drastic than simply truth serum.

[Some Guy]

Of course Ben is going to survive, lol. We've all seen him as a grown man! Whatever happened, happened and so on and so forth.

[four4elements]

You know how Ben shot Locke where his kidney should be, and Locke didn't die because he didn't have a kidney there?

Well clearly, Ben didn't die because he HAS NO HEART...

ROFL priceless that is!

...Im pretty sure Sayid's NOT allowed to do that though :|
daniel will not be happy

[Tinkerbell]

Torture?! That's truth serum. I'd say torture would be a little more drastic than simply truth serum.

Exactly, that was some pretty tame "torture"

[Ever Adrift]

There's no freaking way Ben survived that shot. It was a perfect shot to the heart. Ben surviving would be absolutely lame.

Locke survived what should have been a fatal gun shot and his paralysis was healed by the island. Michael couldn't commit suicide no matter how hard he tried when he was off the island. Jack's suicide attempt(s) was foiled, too. Rose's cancer was cured. Ben indicated at one point that when he got the tumor that caused him to kidnap Jack that he realized the island no longer wanted him because it stopped healing him. Seems like it would follow that young Ben's shot in the heart marks a long life of invincibility courtesy of Jacob.

[laurensav]

Now is the future completely changed?

[rogertheworkman]

now that ben is dead the space-time continium is 40 different ways of !#@&'ed up! think about it if ben died as a child he never would have told sayid to kill all those noobs, so sayid would have never been captured, never gone to the island, and never have killed ben!!!! :eek:OMFG:eek:!!!11 its a time paradox!!

the only way this can be avoided is if Ben survives (with a little help from the island of course) and continues his life

[higgy baby]

anyone notice the filters change in the torture scene? was i going crazy?

[laurensav]

Maybe Ben gets resurrected and that's how he was able to talk to Jacob all that time.

[Tinkerbell]

anyone notice the filters change in the torture scene? was i going crazy?

Yeah! I was like hm.. did it just get darker and bluer for no reason?

[Bloodbath]

Now is the future completely changed?

You can't change the future. ;)

[haner]

I really hope Ben is dead dead dead.
It would be the ultimate lame arse Deus Ex Machina if Ben magically survived that fatal shot.

[Tinkerbell]

I really hope Ben is dead dead dead.
It would be the ultimate lame arse Deus Ex Machina if Ben magically survived that fatal shot.

He can't be dead, it's not logical or possible. We pretty much know he survives, the question is how.

[Krams706]

I really didn't like this episode. The last scene was good, and the scene with Sayid telling the truth about everything was pretty cool and creepy, but I don't know, just wasn't a fan.

I didn't expect Mr. Avellino to be important in the least, but I guess that's why Sayid was on 316.

I think the reason why LaFleur raised his hand (not that it would have really mattered) is that he was worried that Sayid would give away his identity, as when he was drugged up he almost did.

[BeachBum96]

Maybe that's how/why he got mean. If he thought Sayid was a Hostil, he decided to take over both worlds.

[Ever Adrift]

Maybe Ben gets resurrected and that's how he was able to talk to Jacob all that time.

Hell, I wasn't thinking of that. So not only has the island healed paralysis, cancer and Locke's seemingly fatal gunshot would but it's also resurrected Locke and likely Christian. So, not only could Ben just be healed by the island, but it could be a resurrection. After all, we know that the island 'chose' Ben to lead for quite some time, it wasn't always against him.

[Manipulation]

If whatever happened, happened. The purge still has to happen with Ben taking part.
RIGHT?

[AshantilovesLOST]

How did Paul die? Did the Island not need him? So its not impossible to consider he could be dead. TPTB could show us an alternate reality with no Ben and the ramifications of no Ben and then make it a dream or whatever then flash back to this scene and then little Ben gets up, or Richard finds him and heals him up or something.

[Hugo Rocks]

Locke survived what should have been a fatal gun shot and his paralysis was healed by the island. Michael couldn't commit suicide no matter how hard he tried when he was off the island. Jack's suicide attempt(s) was foiled, too. Rose's cancer was cured. Ben indicated at one point that when he got the tumor that caused him to kidnap Jack that he realized the island no longer wanted him because it stopped healing him. Seems like it would follow that young Ben's shot in the heart marks a long life of invincibility courtesy of Jacob.

Yes, that is it. I'm also wondering if Juliet will help save Ben in some way - influencing his later obsession with her. It all makes sense.

[laurensav]

I didn't expect Mr. Avellino to be important in the least, but I guess that's why Sayid was on 316.

I don't think he is important. I still think Ben or Widmore hired her. Probably Ben.

[SeeYouInAnotherLifeBrotha]

What i still wanna know most is if we will ever see Jacob... another episode done and still counting down...

[BeachBum96]

Maybe Widmore hired the gal to take Sayid to Guam - to do in Ben the right way this time.

[laurensav]

Yes, that is it. I'm also wondering if Juliet will help save Ben in some way - influencing his later obsession with her. It all makes sense.

Niiiiice.

[Tinkerbell]

I was actually really surprised that the gun went off. Every other time somebody tried to shoot someone and the island needed them alive, the gun didn't work.

[four4elements]

Yeah! I was like hm.. did it just get darker and bluer for no reason?

Incorrect, everything happens for a reason

This was...boring and the next one didnt look so good :/
the last one was equally as unfulfilling! :/ :\ :/

[lived]

Seeing Jack so low in status is something else. It feels weird, almost a sense of sympathy

[BeachBum96]

I don't think he is important. I still think Ben or Widmore hired her. Probably Ben.

I don't think Ben would want Sayid to go back, do you?

[TeeCakes]

Guess we know now why Ben is such a manipulative jerk to Sayid in 2007. I wouldn't put it past Ben to have killed Nadia after what Sayid pulls with Young Ben. I also wonder why the guys monitoring Hurley (who were most likely in league with Abaddon and Widmore) outside the mental institute had to be eliminated.

[Hugo Rocks]

anyone notice the filters change in the torture scene? was i going crazy?

You're not crazy. I saw that too.

[AshantilovesLOST]

I was actually really surprised that the gun went off. Every other time somebody tried to shoot someone and the island needed them alive, the gun didn't work.


cept for Locke

[Ever Adrift]

I don't think he is important. I still think Ben or Widmore hired her. Probably Ben.

This episode made it appear like it was Ben, but it very well could have been Widmore. After all, we know that Widmore seemed to have an interest in helping Locke get the O6 back as well; Ben and Widmore are enemies but they may both have their reasons for wanting the return of the O6.

[Tinkerbell]

Seeing Jack so low in status is something else. It feels weird, almost a sense of sympathy

Yeah, it is weird! He's an accomplished spinal surgeon, and now here he is in a jumpsuit with a firehose.

[haner]

Maybe Widmore hired the gal to take Sayid to Guam - to do in Ben the right way this time.

Yeah that's my thinking too. Ben looked really shocked to see Sayid on that Ajira plane. He was immediately distracted by Hurley though.

I'm still hoping Ben is really dead. I don't need any more magical resurrections. One Locke was enough.

[Krams706]

Yes, that is it. I'm also wondering if Juliet will help save Ben in some way - influencing his later obsession with her. It all makes sense.

Ooh cool; maybe that's what Harper means when she says "You look just like her." Probably not.

[rogertheworkman]

Yeah! I was like hm.. did it just get darker and bluer for no reason?

Me 3, it made the mood darker but had awfull timing

[TeeCakes]

Yes, that is it. I'm also wondering if Juliet will help save Ben in some way - influencing his later obsession with her. It all makes sense.

Very likely. Harper said that Juliet "looks just like 'her'" in "The Other Woman", probably was Juliet herself after saving Ben's life with Doc Shephard.

[Flyin' High]

I really didn't like this episode. The last scene was good, and the scene with Sayid telling the truth about everything was pretty cool and creepy, but I don't know, just wasn't a fan.

I didn't expect Mr. Avellino to be important in the least, but I guess that's why Sayid was on 316.

I think the reason why LaFleur raised his hand (not that it would have really mattered) is that he was worried that Sayid would give away his identity, as when he was drugged up he almost did.

What if Ben did hire the woman (I can't remember her name! :eek:) but did it through someone else so she wouldn't have known him personally. After all, Ben did know about Mr. Avellino since he told Sayid to kill him in the first place.

In other words, it could go to show that Ben manipulated Sayid onto that flight.

As for Sayid killing Ben, what if there are actually two timelines now. I know, I know, what happened, happened. But if there is a new timeline where the purge never happened because Ben was killed by Sayid, then it could explain the weird abandoned Dharmaville that we saw in last week's episode.

Something felt off about it, like it was abandoned by DHARMA, not overtaken by hostiles.

At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.

[Tinkerbell]

Gosh I totally forgot about Widmore with all this other crazy time stuff going on.

[laurensav]

It would make sense for Widmore to want Sayid on the plane. He wants Ben dead.

[lived]

Two timelines would be kinda lame

[Ever Adrift]

What i still wanna know most is if we will ever see Jacob... another episode done and still counting down...

I don't think that whatever Jacob is, and it/he is definitely supernatural, he was never a part of DHARMA nor am I convinced he's a typical hostile. Alpert seemed to know who Jacob was when Locke confronted him in the 1950s. I doubt we'll know what or who Jacob is until season 6.

[Bloodbath]

This gives me a different spin on the description that Comcast has for next week's ep.

[higgy baby]

Guess we know now why Ben is such a manipulative jerk to Sayid in 2007. I wouldn't put it past Ben to have killed Nadia after what Sayid pulls with Young Ben. I also wonder why the guys monitoring Hurley (who were most likely in league with Abaddon and Widmore) outside the mental institute had to be eliminated.

not so... what ever happened happened must be applied... this is the first time that they have gone through this loop so this didnt happen in the previous past.

[Tinkerbell]

I want to know what happened to Faraday, he just sort of disappeared off the face of the earth.

[four-toes]

anyone notice the filters change in the torture scene? was i going crazy?

I thought it had to do with the LSD drugs that Sayid was on.

[monkeycowboy]

Didn't Ben tell Locke that the island had always healed him until he got that tumor that Jack removed? I assume that the island had already 'chose' Ben when Sayid shot him...Tumor on spine ripple in time.

[Ever Adrift]

I was actually really surprised that the gun went off. Every other time somebody tried to shoot someone and the island needed them alive, the gun didn't work.

Locke got shot, successfull, by Ben and was left to die in Ben's mass grave!

[Hugo Rocks]

I want to know what happened to Faraday, he just sort of disappeared off the face of the earth.

Me too! I know they do that kind of stuff for dramatic purposes, but it is just so damn annoying. No one questions Sawyer?? Hurley should have been like, "Dude, where is he?"

[TeeCakes]

What if Ben did hire the woman (I can't remember her name! :eek:) but did it through someone else so she wouldn't have known him personally. After all, Ben did know about Mr. Avellino since he told Sayid to kill him in the first place.

In other words, it could go to show that Ben manipulated Sayid onto that flight.

As for Sayid killing Ben, what if there are actually two timelines now. I know, I know, what happened, happened. But if there is a new timeline where the purge never happened because Ben was killed by Sayid, then it could explain the weird abandoned Dharmaville that we saw in last week's episode.

Something felt off about it, like it was abandoned by DHARMA, not overtaken by hostiles.

At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.

It's a good theory, despite TPTB saying they would 'avoid paradoxes as much as possible'. Still, the book Ben gives Sayid was titled "A Separate Reality" after all...

And does anyone else think that 'figure' behind Sun in "Namaste" looks a lot like Horace upon seeing his long reddish hair in this ep?

[laurensav]

Locke got shot, successfull, by Ben and was left to die in Ben's mass grave!

So maybe that's how Ben knew Jacob would save Locke. Maybe Jacob saved Ben.

[Tinkerbell]

Should we just assume that Rose, Bernard & co are dead? Because if they've been sweeping the island looking for Locke, I'm sure Sawyer and Jin would have found all of them in 3 years... and if the island froze in Dharma time, the other survivors should be there too

[higgy baby]

As for Sayid killing Ben, what if there are actually two timelines now. I know, I know, what happened, happened. But if there is a new timeline where the purge never happened because Ben was killed by Sayid, then it could explain the weird abandoned Dharmaville that we saw in last week's episode.

Something felt off about it, like it was abandoned by DHARMA, not overtaken by hostiles.

Brilliant... the second that they flashed, the new timeline would be set in place.

[four-toes]

Can someone confirm if the bounty-hunter was Ilana? For some reason the bounty-hunter looked hotter.

[laurensav]

And does anyone else think that 'figure' behind Sun in "Namaste" looks a lot like Horace upon seeing his long reddish hair in this ep?

Only if Dr. Rey appears on the island and gives him implants. jk

[Krams706]

I guess killing Ben could make an alternate reality. Just an aside, the book Ben gave Sayid was called "A Separate Reality".

[haner]

I want to know what happened to Faraday, he just sort of disappeared off the face of the earth.

Maybe he discovered a way to change the past to save his beloved Charlotte.

[mynameisnick4]

My favorite episode of the season so far. It had the original lost feel to it with the flashbacks, something that has been missing for awhile.

[Bloodbath]

It's a good theory, despite TPTB saying they would 'avoid paradoxes as much as possible'. Still, the book Ben gives Sayid was titled "A Separate Reality" after all...

And does anyone else think that 'figure' behind Sun in "Namaste" looks a lot like Horace upon seeing his long reddish hair in this ep?

It looks more like a crew member.

[Krams706]

Can someone confirm if the bounty-hunter was Ilana? For some reason the bounty-hunter looked hotter.

It was Ilana.

[BeachBum96]

I guess killing Ben could make an alternate reality. Just an aside, the book Ben gave Sayid was called "A Separate Reality".

Ben is not dead! It wouldn't make sense.

[TeeCakes]

not so... what ever happened happened must be applied... this is the first time that they have gone through this loop so this didnt happen in the previous past.

Whoa, you actually have that totally backwards. "Whatever happened, happened" means that Sayid *always* shoots Young Ben in the past. Meaning Ben will *always* survive the gunshot, and grow up to harbor hatred for Sayid doing this, and for Sayid torturing "Henry Gale" in the Swan as well.

[lived]

Should we just assume that Rose, Bernard & co are dead? Because if they've been sweeping the island looking for Locke, I'm sure Sawyer and Jin would have found all of them in 3 years... and if the island froze in Dharma time, the other survivors should be there too

Rose and Bernard didn't time-travel, they should be on main island present time, I'm sure Sun and Lapidus will run into them

[Lostie247]

not so... what ever happened happened must be applied... this is the first time that they have gone through this loop so this didnt happen in the previous past.

Yeh but if you remember last week when Jin was shown the picture, the new losties Hurley, Jack and Kate are all in the picture and the only way for that to happen was by returning to the past like they did somehow rippled into the future...so technically in my mind shooting Ben, and if he is dead, then Ben of the Future should dissapear....

[Ever Adrift]

Me 3, it made the mood darker but had awfull timing

I think the filter change was a (poorly chosen method) of trying to capture the idea that Sayid was tripping on drugs.

[BeachBum96]

Rose and Bernard didn't time-travel, they should be on main island present time, I'm sure Sun and Lapidus will run into them

Why wouldn't they TT - even the other Redshirts did until they died.

[Tinkerbell]

Rose and Bernard didn't time-travel, they should be on main island present time, I'm sure Sun and Lapidus will run into them

Why didn't they time travel? They were on the island with everybody else when the flashes started. And when that annoying guy (Fargus? i forget his name) got shot with a fire-arrow, and that was the last time we saw the other ones.

[laurensav]

Yeh but if you remember last week when Jin was shown the picture, the new losties Hurley, Jack and Kate are all in the picture and the only way for that to happen was by returning to the past like they did somehow rippled into the future...so technically in my mind shooting Ben, and if he is dead, then Ben of the Future should dissapear....

Unless they were always in that picture. Which is following the rules of the show.

[heyysteph]

Very likely. Harper said that Juliet "looks just like 'her'" in "The Other Woman", probably was Juliet herself after saving Ben's life with Doc Shephard.

juliet was concerned about performing an appendectomy, i don't think she'd touch a heart or lung that's been shot. my bet's on jack finally getting to be of some real use again.

[saidsayid]

What if Ben did hire the woman (I can't remember her name! :eek:) but did it through someone else so she wouldn't have known him personally. After all, Ben did know about Mr. Avellino since he told Sayid to kill him in the first place.

In other words, it could go to show that Ben manipulated Sayid onto that flight.

As for Sayid killing Ben, what if there are actually two timelines now. I know, I know, what happened, happened. But if there is a new timeline where the purge never happened because Ben was killed by Sayid, then it could explain the weird abandoned Dharmaville that we saw in last week's episode.

Something felt off about it, like it was abandoned by DHARMA, not overtaken by hostiles.

At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.

If the 2007 that we saw Sun in (when she spoke with Christian) was post Young Ben being shot, then why was Old Ben still around? Wouldn't he have vanished in the flash?

[Tinkerbell]

OMG... what if Jack saves kid-Ben, wouldn't that be trippy

[Nightlight]

Heres my [I]take on the timeline:

Simply, there is one timeline.

Everything that has happened in the past when people time travel happens before they time travel, seeing as they changed it IN THE PAST. So all the events that occurred during the past had already happened. The only thing thats wrong with this is when you meet your own self, and then it just is confusing.

Which explains why Sayid shot Ben, but Ben still lived on to do whatever he did and therefore cause all of the events.

But if my whole theory is wrong, think how possibly boring it would be without all of Ben's events not occurring, none of this would of even happened.

But this is probably wrong considering the abandoned dharmaville the guy said a few posts up. I unno
Ignore this if I seem stupid, im not smart lol.

[laurensav]

juliet was concerned about performing an appendectomy, i don't think she'd touch a heart or lung that's been shot. my bet's on jack finally getting to be of some real use again.

Yeah, maybe Jack saves him with surgery but then Juliet nurses Ben and takes care of him.

[higgy baby]

Yeh but if you remember last week when Jin was shown the picture, the new losties Hurley, Jack and Kate are all in the picture and the only way for that to happen was by returning to the past like they did somehow rippled into the future...so technically in my mind shooting Ben, and if he is dead, then Ben of the Future should dissapear....

agreed, that was why i suggested the michael j fox disappearance on pg1 ;)

[Gimme Panda]

Yeh but if you remember last week when Jin was shown the picture, the new losties Hurley, Jack and Kate are all in the picture and the only way for that to happen was by returning to the past like they did somehow rippled into the future...so technically in my mind shooting Ben, and if he is dead, then Ben of the Future should dissapear....

no, Sun was shown the picture, and just because kate, jack, and hurley were in the picture, does not mean that they were not originally there in the past. It just means that the picture was never seen by any of them in the future.

and yeah, what happened, happened means that what we are seeing happening is what has already happened. I don't think we have seen any deviation from the true past as it happened, yet.... I think (hope!) we will otherwise, yes, this will end up just being some time loop thing for eternity. I'm hoping the point of all this is to end the time loop.

[Ever Adrift]

What if Ben did hire the woman (I can't remember her name! :eek:) but did it through someone else so she wouldn't have known him personally. After all, Ben did know about Mr. Avellino since he told Sayid to kill him in the first place.

In other words, it could go to show that Ben manipulated Sayid onto that flight.

As for Sayid killing Ben, what if there are actually two timelines now. I know, I know, what happened, happened. But if there is a new timeline where the purge never happened because Ben was killed by Sayid, then it could explain the weird abandoned Dharmaville that we saw in last week's episode.

Something felt off about it, like it was abandoned by DHARMA, not overtaken by hostiles.

At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.

I'm just going to go on the record and say: if they start allowing for new alternate timelines they will completely ruin this show, period. The show's writers/producters have said previously that they would not be allowing for alternate time lines and I believe that because, well, again... it would ruin the show. The island has resurrected two people from the death. Other dead people like Charlie have a tendency to pop up to multiple people. It prohibited Michael (and probably Jack) from committing suicide. It heals cancer, it heals paralysis. Think about it; young Ben is gonna survive.

Kinda sheds a new light on Older Ben's torture by Sayid when he's portraying Henry Gale; he obviously knew that Sayid, Sawyer, etc. would eventually travel back in time.

[Bloodbath]

Was "Ilana"'s accent fake? I kinda heard it on the plane too, but couldn't hear it in the other episodes she was in.

[Tinkerbell]

Ben needs to live. If they go into alternate-realities and different paths of time, I'm going to be annoyed. It'll be too Twilight Zone to take seriously anymore.

[higgy baby]

Whoa, you actually have that totally backwards. "Whatever happened, happened" means that Sayid *always* shoots Young Ben in the past. Meaning Ben will *always* survive the gunshot, and grow up to harbor hatred for Sayid doing this, and for Sayid torturing "Henry Gale" in the Swan as well.

i absolutely disagree. at some point 815 has to crash and they enter the loop... this boils down to chicken or egg.

[saidsayid]

Rose and Bernard didn't time-travel, they should be on main island present time, I'm sure Sun and Lapidus will run into them

Yes they did, we saw them time travel before they all go separated!

[Ever Adrift]

I want to know what happened to Faraday, he just sort of disappeared off the face of the earth.

Gotta be taking part in the secret creation of the Orchid, judging from the first scene of this season! I'm more interested in where the hell Rose and Bernard are.

[Agent Graves]

I am still searching for the books title, from the book that Ben gave Sayid.

[DriveShaftGroupie08]

Ok, I am freaking out right now. I cannot even focus on anything else I need to do for work tomorrow......since Sayid just shot Ben, then does that mean he dropped dead in current day where ever he is on Hydra Island??

Or, does the theory of the 2 separate realities mean he still is alive current day, but dead in the other reality?

Oh my god, I am so confused. I literally screamed out loud. I could not believe Sayid just shot Ben. For a brief moment, I thought Jin was dead, again, lol.

Where is Faraday?! I thought he said "What happened happened" and can't be changed and all that. If you go to the past and alter things, does this rule still apply? We need a time travel rule chart.

And I want to know what Kate was going to say when she said she knew why SHE came back.

Good question about Bernard, Rose and co.....I am assuming they are present day where Ben and Sun are.....which further drives the 2 timelines theory.....

This is so insane, in my opinion, the best twist of the season so far. I also like how we now are supposed to kind of feel bad for Ben, you know, justification for all his lies and bullshit, since he was treated so badly by his dad, etc....

And I totally agree with whoever said Ben tricked Sayid onto getting onto the flight by hiring the bounty hunter through someone else.

Oh, does anyone know who beat up Ben yet?

[Gimme Panda]

and from what I've read about next week, I think some people are using spoilers and trying to pass them off as theories, which is really just ridiculous and selfish

[Ever Adrift]

I thought it had to do with the LSD drugs that Sayid was on.

I don't think it was LSD; that doesn't make people tell the unequivocal truth. Hell, it doesn't allow people to speak coherently whatsoever! Trust me...

[haner]

I'm just going to go on the record and say: if they start allowing for new alternate timelines they will completely ruin this show, period.

Whatever. This infinite loop, chicken and egg thing we've had going is getting tiresome (it was cute for a few episodes). I'm for one glad they are entertaining the possibility of breaking this damn loop. Otherwise, what's the point?

[laurensav]

I hope there's an episode where we just see Rose and Bernard and Vincent surviving in perfect harmony down by the beach.

[oobga]

Yeh but if you remember last week when Jin was shown the picture, the new losties Hurley, Jack and Kate are all in the picture and the only way for that to happen was by returning to the past like they did somehow rippled into the future...so technically in my mind shooting Ben, and if he is dead, then Ben of the Future should dissapear....

If we're saying that Ben and the losties traveled to a new iteration of the loop, then the adult Ben we're watching was born in a previous loop, so he won't be affected by the young Ben's fate in the new one.

[heyysteph]

Yeah, maybe Jack saves him with surgery but then Juliet nurses Ben and takes care of him.

that's what i was thinking. it would be really interesting to see the conflicting emotions with juliet. sort of like it was with alex... she acted like she hated ben so much, but when they actually threatened to hurt him you saw how she really felt.

[Flyin' High]

If the 2007 that we saw Sun in (when she spoke with Christian) was post Young Ben being shot, then why was Old Ben still around? Wouldn't he have vanished in the flash?

Well, I was suggesting that based on the potential of two timelines. I'm not sure I believe that there are two timelines now (it makes things WAY too complicated), but I was just postulating that this could be an explanation for the weird state we saw Dharmaville in last week.

[lived]

Yes they did, we saw them time travel before they all go separated!

Totally forgot about that. So Rose and company + Faraday + Claire + present-day losties are the characters we have absolutely no info about

[Lostie247]

Why didn't they time travel? They were on the island with everybody else when the flashes started. And when that annoying guy (Fargus? i forget his name) got shot with a fire-arrow, and that was the last time we saw the other ones.

Yes, they would have traveld back with our 70's crew, I don't think it was selective as to who traveld and who did not...however who ever traveld back to the 70's is now technically ( if nothing has happend to them) there also in the Present ....just they should all be much much older, rose and Bernard would age by what ...30 years ...so they might be in their 80's ....

[BeachBum96]

I am still searching for the books title, from the book that Ben gave Sayid.

The title was posted earlier.

[haner]

If we're saying that Ben and the losties traveled to a new iteration of the loop, then the adult Ben we're watching was born in a previous loop, so he won't be affected by the young Ben's fate in the new one.

Yup!
.

[heyysteph]

I don't think it was LSD; that doesn't make people tell the unequivocal truth. Hell, it doesn't allow people to speak coherently whatsoever! Trust me...

actually, i'm pretty sure it was LSD. it was used as a truth serum in the '60s.

[Gimme Panda]

I'm hoping Rose, Bernard and Vincent were wandering, then discovered by The Others who were in hiding at what we presume to be the temple and thus were saved from the time travel stuff.

Anyway, I hope we see them sometime soon. it's really bugging me, and I don't really care that much about them, but comeon already! :)

[Ever Adrift]

Rose and Bernard didn't time-travel, they should be on main island present time, I'm sure Sun and Lapidus will run into them

Yes they did time travel. They ran with everyone else when our Losties was shot by flaming arrows, which was after they started hopping around in time. There was that whole season right before Frogurt died when Rose and Bernard were telling him to calm down and that there was no point to make a fire because they'd probably jump in time again before they finished. Rose and Bernard are either also working for Dharma, and we just have yet to see them, or they are with the hostiles.

[Tinkerbell]

This is the book:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/1826437591_2f684662b3.jpg

[jeffro40299]

What if Ben did hire the woman (I can't remember her name! :eek:) but did it through someone else so she wouldn't have known him personally. After all, Ben did know about Mr. Avellino since he told Sayid to kill him in the first place.

In other words, it could go to show that Ben manipulated Sayid onto that flight.

As for Sayid killing Ben, what if there are actually two timelines now. I know, I know, what happened, happened. But if there is a new timeline where the purge never happened because Ben was killed by Sayid, then it could explain the weird abandoned Dharmaville that we saw in last week's episode.

Something felt off about it, like it was abandoned by DHARMA, not overtaken by hostiles.

At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.

it was abandoned...all the others went to the temple at bens urging before the mercs got on the island. then the house claire was in got blown up. now it's 3 years later, and thats assuming that sun and frank et all are in 2007. we don't really know, but it's a safe assumption since they landed on the runway that sawyer, kate and the others built...again, an assumption.

[TeeCakes]

Rose and Bernard -- More and more (absence of) evidence points towards them being with the Hostiles, since Sayid's arrival in DI territory was such a big deal. We would've seen them in the Barracks by now if R & B were part of the DI, and they're certainly in 1977 seeing as how they flashed to the same timelines just like Jin and the other Losties do.

Ben -- is alive. His presence in 2008 on the Island means he doesn't die, apparently. As someone pointed out above, the picture in the Welcome Station with Hurley, Jack, and Kate proves the past where Sayid shoots Young Ben is linked to the future where 2008 Ben is still alive. We've also seen flashbacks of Ben in 1992 committing patricide against Roger during the Purge-- so he'll have to survive somehow (possibly due to the Island's magic).

There is one small possibility for Ben to alter his past-- if he does something to provoke Desmond (i.e. killing Penny before boarding 316), it may prompt Desmond to flash inside his consciousness ala "The Constant" to try and prevent a future where Penny is killed from happening. This could alter a significant amount of things in unforeseeable ways, and could also explain how Locke is suddenly alive again as well.

[m8o]

Whatever. This infinite loop, chicken and egg thing we've had going is getting tiresome (it was cute for a few episodes). I'm for one glad they are entertaining the possibility of breaking this damn loop. Otherwise, what's the point? I've been toying with the idea that Locke's 'gullibility' has been behind him being chosen to be the agent of breaking the cycle. Not a well formed presentation of the idea. Just too busy working.

[lived]

Question : was Sayid told they had teleported back in time?? Hurley, Jack and kate were but was Sayid told?

[guenivere1111]

No...I don't think Ben is dead. It wouldn't fit with the show's conception of time travel.

[myfourletterlie]

Question : was Sayid told they had teleported back in time?? Hurley, Jack and kate were but was Sayid told?

I think he figured it out, seeing all the DHARMA folks and them calling him a "hostile" and he knows a little about them from Mikhail.

[m8o]

actually, i'm pretty sure it was LSD. it was used as a truth serum in the '60s. I was really getting a kick out of Mr. You holding the acid laced sugar cube with his fingers sans rubber gloves. He should have been tripping as much as Sayid! (well, he's probably in a constant altered state anyway)

[oobga]

This is the book:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/1826437591_2f684662b3.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Separate_Reality

looks like the book has nothing to do with alternate time lines. The theme of the book seems to fall more in line with Sayid getting drugged.

[Lostie247]

Well, I was suggesting that based on the potential of two timelines. I'm not sure I believe that there are two timelines now (it makes things WAY too complicated), but I was just postulating that this could be an explanation for the weird state we saw Dharmaville in last week.


Actually now reading this and thinking about it some more this is probably spot on...the weird Dharmaville is that way since the "purge" never happens and the Dharmies never are killed by Ben and the hostiles or not at that point...later it is possible that the Dharmies mix it up with Others....Widmore tells Locke he has to go back because there is a War coming...which either refers to the Purge or an event that now happens becasue there was no purge and now the Losties in the 70's go to war with the Others...

[haner]

Question : was Sayid told they had teleported back in time?? Hurley, Jack and kate were but was Sayid told?

Well, he knew somehow he was from the future.

[four4elements]

also, sawyer said 'if you spend three years in the 70s you get used to [dharmaville]' to sayid

[DriveShaftGroupie08]

Sayid did say he was from the future when they gave him the Harry Potter "truth serum." haha. He told them they were all going to die, remember?

[Ever Adrift]

Whatever. This infinite loop, chicken and egg thing we've had going is getting tiresome (it was cute for a few episodes). I'm for one glad they are entertaining the possibility of breaking this damn loop. Otherwise, what's the point?

It's a good way of getting filled in about the island's history and accounting for some interesting back story to events that happened in the 100 days following the crash of 316. Think back to the scene where Ben 'was' Henry Gale and being tortured by Sayid, puts that all in a new light doesn't it? Helps explain why Ben was so intent on infiltrating 316 and finding out who the hell was on the flight...

Also, it explains why Ben told Michael that he wanted Kate, Jack and Hurley specifically to come and be traded for Walter. Ben remembered the three of them from the past.

My guess is that by the season finale we'll see those stuck in 1977 get back to 2007. After all, as Widmore said, 'a war is coming'

[higgy baby]

lol i just figured out who the actor is that plays roger linus... bens dad could throw a football clear over them mountains.

[Krams706]

I'm kinda thinking Ben is dead. This will open up a paradox, and in one reality, Ben is dead and Dharma is still going.

I mean really, where else is the story going this season? Hurley can't make waffles for seven more hours.

[higgy baby]

It's a good way of getting filled in about the island's history and accounting for some interesting back story to events that happened in the 100 days following the crash of 316. Think back to the scene where Ben 'was' Henry Gale and being tortured by Sayid, puts that all in a new light doesn't it? Helps explain why Ben was so intent on infiltrating 316 and finding out who the hell was on the flight...

Also, it explains why Ben told Michael that he wanted Kate, Jack and Hurley specifically to come and be traded for Walter. Ben remembered the three of them from the past.

My guess is that by the season finale we'll see those stuck in 1977 get back to 2007. After all, as Widmore said, 'a war is coming'

so do you think that ben's evil is set in place by sayid shooting him/whatever is coming from the losties?

[Krams706]

lol i just figured out who the actor is that plays roger linus... bens dad could throw a football clear over them mountains.

Is that Rico? :D

[Ever Adrift]

actually, i'm pretty sure it was LSD. it was used as a truth serum in the '60s.

And it was abandoned for being absolutely ineffective as one. There were other drugs tested by the CIA and MI6 that, however, may have been more effective. Or the show's writers just don't much about lsd...

[Lostie247]

Rose and Bernard -- More and more (absence of) evidence points towards them being with the Hostiles, since Sayid's arrival in DI territory was such a big deal. We would've seen them in the Barracks by now if R & B were part of the DI, and they're certainly in 1977 seeing as how they flashed to the same timelines just like Jin and the other Losties do.

Ben -- is alive. His presence in 2008 on the Island means he doesn't die, apparently. As someone pointed out above, the picture in the Welcome Station with Hurley, Jack, and Kate proves the past where Sayid shoots Young Ben is linked to the future where 2008 Ben is still alive. We've also seen flashbacks of Ben in 1992 committing patricide against Roger during the Purge-- so he'll have to survive somehow (possibly due to the Island's magic).

There is one small possibility for Ben to alter his past-- if he does something to provoke Desmond (i.e. killing Penny before boarding 316), it may prompt Desmond to flash inside his consciousness ala "The Constant" to try and prevent a future where Penny is killed from happening. This could alter a significant amount of things in unforeseeable ways, and could also explain how Locke is suddenly alive again as well.

We don't know yet based on this episode actions what is going on in the present...Just becasue in past epi Ben was alive we don't know he has'nt vanished...they will have to show us this one in future epi as to what is going on with Ben...if he remains alive and does not vanish then either young ben does not die...maybe Jack and Julia operate on him again and save him....maybe...thats the only way his is going to live....

[i_taped_over_the_game]

....................................... : O !

omfg

:: flails ::

[higgy baby]

indeed!

[TeeCakes]

I'm kinda thinking Ben is dead. This will open up a paradox, and in one reality, Ben is dead and Dharma is still going.

I mean really, where else is the story going this season? Hurley can't make waffles for seven more hours.

Clearly the story is heading towards the DI making the choice to instigate a war with the Hostiles (they think Sayid knows too much and will take that info over to the Others now that he's escaped), which leads Richard to call off the truce, and call on the Purge.

But before any of that happens-- the Incident occurs. Which does something to drastically alter the DI before the Purge. Maybe if Ben is dead now... he won't be after the Purge??

[higgy baby]

We don't know yet based on this episode actions what is going on in the present...Just becasue in past epi Ben was alive we don't know he has'nt vanished...they will have to show us this one in future epi as to what is going on with Ben...if he remains alive and does not vanish then either young ben does not die...maybe Jack and Julia operate on him again and save him....maybe...thats the only way his is going to live....

if ben was dead then he would have vanished the instant sayid traveled back in time.

[Manipulation]

Right or Wrong?

Ben has to be alive to take part in the purge, otherwise Dharma will still be around in the future whenever the losties get warped back to it.

[haner]

It's a good way of getting filled in about the island's history and accounting for some interesting back story to events that happened in the 100 days following the crash of 316. Think back to the scene where Ben 'was' Henry Gale and being tortured by Sayid, puts that all in a new light doesn't it? Helps explain why Ben was so intent on infiltrating 316 and finding out who the hell was on the flight...

Also, it explains why Ben told Michael that he wanted Kate, Jack and Hurley specifically to come and be traded for Walter. Ben remembered the three of them from the past.

My guess is that by the season finale we'll see those stuck in 1977 get back to 2007. After all, as Widmore said, 'a war is coming'

What you wrote makes sense, but wow I really just want that "what happened happened" theory get shot down at some point. I would much rather it be proven an island superstition.

[laurensav]

Right or Wrong?

Ben has to be alive to take part in the purge, otherwise Dharma will still be around in the future whenever the losties get warped back to it.

Right. Unless Jack or Jacob or someone else saved Ben before he died.

[higgy baby]

Right or Wrong?

Ben has to be alive to take part in the purge, otherwise Dharma will still be around in the future whenever the losties get warped back to it.

or dharma will have been wiped out via other means/stopped the project for some other reason. which would explain why there are still pictures hanging in the room with Christian...


BUT


if Ben was dead then the runway would not have been built, which they landed on AFTER sayid flashed back, and 30 years or so after he shot Ben. the runway is my constant.

[DriveShaftGroupie08]

This hurts my brain. AHHHHH! I cannot wait to find out.

[higgy baby]

What you wrote makes sense, but wow I really just want that "what happened happened" theory get shot down at some point. I would much rather it be proven an island superstition.

not a superstition! a theory by a man much nerdier than us (faraday)

[Ever Adrift]

so do you think that ben's evil is set in place by sayid shooting him/whatever is coming from the losties?

Not necessarily, but when 316 crashed he was expecting it, to a degree. And probably became more interested when he saw the names of Jack, Kate, Hurley, etc on the flight manifest.

[Lostie247]

Did anyone catch that when they were voting to kill Syid that someone said that if they did not kill him they need to contact Ann Arbor? was that Right?

[i_taped_over_the_game]

Arghhhh, it depends on what sort of time continuum theories they're running on. :: boggles ::

For example. If Sayid shot young Ben, then none of the events that take place after the crash of 815 would have gone the same way etc etc etc and there's no guarantee that Sayid would have even come back to the island, to 1977 to shoot Ben at all. And if Ben IS dead in the future, he'd have no reason to shoot 1977 Ben anyway, because he wouldn't know him!

It's that old The Time Machine malarkey. he couldn't make a time machine and go back in time to save his girlfriend from dying, because if she hadn't died he wouldn't have made the time machine in order to go back in the first place. :: pulls at hair and jigs around the living room :: Oh maaaaannnn!

[higgy baby]

Not necessarily, but when 316 crashed he was expecting it, to a degree. And probably became more interested when he saw the names of Jack, Kate, Hurley, etc on the flight manifest.

which would explain why he seemed prepared to send out his minions while the plane was breaking apart in front of him.

[haner]

not a superstition! a theory by a man much nerdier than us (faraday)

The universe course corrects, but it doesn't have to follow exactly as predestined. The DI could be purged in other ways (without Ben).

God, I hope Ben is dead.

[lived]

Did anyone catch that when they were voting to kill Syid that someone said that if they did not kill him they need to contact Ann Arbor? was that Right?

Didn't catch it but i thought he used plural, something like "them to fix this up" My first thought was Pierre chang and his gang

[Ever Adrift]

What you wrote makes sense, but wow I really just want that "what happened happened" theory get shot down at some point. I would much rather it be proven an island superstition.

Getting rid of 'whatever happened, happened' would ruin the show, imo. It's hard enough to follow now, but the writer's have done an incredible job of keeping out plot holes. Allowing alternate realities would undermine everything thats happened and destroy the plot, plot holes would become common... it'd all fall apart. They aren't going to posit the 'whatever happened, happened' rule only to get rid of it. We know the island 'chooses' people and those people live, no matter how hard they try to die or other people try to kill them.

[kintrell]

this may have been mentioned already but i didnt have time to read through the posts before work...

The name of the book gives something away.(I think) Young ben is dead in HIS reality. "Regular ben" is alive in his. The are now two(maybe more) realities in the lost universe.

[heyysteph]

And it was abandoned for being absolutely ineffective as one. There were other drugs tested by the CIA and MI6 that, however, may have been more effective. Or the show's writers just don't much about lsd...

i don't know of one truth serum that has ever been that effective, let alone one available in '77. what other truth serum do you know of that was administered exactly the way LSD was at the time?

[oobga]

or dharma will have been wiped out via other means/stopped the project for some other reason. which would explain why there are still pictures hanging in the room with Christian...


BUT


if Ben was dead then the runway would not have been built, which they landed on AFTER sayid flashed back, and 30 years or so after he shot Ben. the runway is my constant.

Could end up being a case of course correction? Seems to me there is many a way that the DI could get wiped out.

Perhaps Jacob requested the runway be made because he knew Locke had to come back using it. The others will always end up working on it because Jacob is, at least for the time being, a constant in this whole time traveling thing.

Thought there was supposed to be more questions answered than created this far into the series :)

[mynameisnick4]

Anyone else catch the continuity error when Sawyer was talking to someone (forget who) where one shot his hair was covering his ear then the next it was tucked behind? I know its stupid but it really stuck out, I usually don't catch that kind of stuff.

[BeachBum96]

Did anyone catch that when they were voting to kill Syid that someone said that if they did not kill him they need to contact Ann Arbor? was that Right?

That's what they said. Was that the Dharma HQ?

[higgy baby]

Anyone else catch the continuity error when Sawyer was talking to someone (forget who) where one shot his hair was covering his ear then the next it was tucked behind? I know its stupid but it really stuck out, I usually don't catch that kind of stuff.

two separate realities

[Ever Adrift]

i don't know of one truth serum that has ever been that effective, let alone one available in '77. what other truth serum do you know of that was administered exactly the way LSD was at the time?


Eh, I don't, just now that others were tested. And yes, I'll admit that the way they administered it made it look like LSD and that, actually, is probably on purpose. I'm just saying that LSD wouldn't actually have made him tell the truth like he did, and certainly wouldn't have allowed him to be that coherent in reality. Oh well.

[S.Automation]

Hey folks, long time lurker first time poster..

All I can think right now is WOAH, if Ben really is dead it says alot about where the story line is heading and I think it may be related to Jacob. Now this is just a shot in the dark but what if Jacob once existed in normal reality but by using the power of the island went back in time and changed events or even somehow did something much worse with the aid of the island, here's my point what if Jacob is now more of Omnipresence type being stuck outside of reality and by using the losties as his puppets is now trying to bring himself back to "normal" reality.

If somehow he influenced the destruction of the DHARMA Initiative and lead Ben to his current state as the "bad guy" wouldnt killing childhood ben bring him one step closer to being free? From the looks of Mr. Linus current state in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham he seems to be in a coma or atleast badly injured, All I am saying is maybe Jacob what ever he may be is possibly working on finding someone to take his place and Ben looks like a promising candidate.

[BeachBum96]

The universe course corrects, but it doesn't have to follow exactly as predestined. The DI could be purged in other ways (without Ben).

God, I hope Ben is dead.

Ben is not dead. Geez, people...

[haner]

Getting rid of 'whatever happened, happened' would ruin the show, imo. It's hard enough to follow now, but the writer's have done an incredible job of keeping out plot holes. Allowing alternate realities would undermine everything thats happened and destroy the plot, plot holes would become common... it'd all fall apart. They aren't going to posit the 'whatever happened, happened' rule only to get rid of it. We know the island 'chooses' people and those people live, no matter how hard they try to die or other people try to kill them.

Sure, but saving Ben after that shot would just make this the lamest cliffhanger ever. Why not save Alex? Why not save any other character? It's a deus ex machina ploy worse than just ending the infinite loop.

[Bloodbath]

Things like "Two Seperate Realities" are usually hints, but I really hope it's not this time.

[Lostie247]

That's what they said. Was that the Dharma HQ?

Funny , Im from Michigan, I lived once in Ann Arbor so who is a U of M fan of the writters....interesting....

[Agent Graves]

Thanks you for the book tinker!

[higgy baby]

IRT the ann arbor question... pierre chang's origin on the lostpedia page has it as ann arbor... but that is the only place it has it listed. was someone a little anxious to update it or was it always there from the ARG or whatnot?

[mynameisnick4]

two separate realities
It has to be.

[BeachBum96]

It has to be.

The book is about drug induced realities.

[fxu]

Arghhhh, it depends on what sort of time continuum theories they're running on. :: boggles ::

For example. If Sayid shot young Ben, then none of the events that take place after the crash of 815 would have gone the same way etc etc etc and there's no guarantee that Sayid would have even come back to the island, to 1977 to shoot Ben at all. And if Ben IS dead in the future, he'd have no reason to shoot 1977 Ben anyway, because he wouldn't know him!

It's that old The Time Machine malarkey. he couldn't make a time machine and go back in time to save his girlfriend from dying, because if she hadn't died he wouldn't have made the time machine in order to go back in the first place. :: pulls at hair and jigs around the living room :: Oh maaaaannnn!

Unless a new timeline/parallel universe is created when something changes. You're conscious about what happened before, but now it's gonna happen differently.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox#Parallel_universes.2Falternate _timelines

(can't post complete links since I don't have 10 posts yet -_-)

[Hugo Rocks]

Ben is not dead. Geez, people...

You said it brotha. I think maybe there should be 2 epi threads. People who want to discuss the notion that Ben is dead and the rest of us.

[Dharma Balloon]

Did anyone else think that the Sayid/Ilanna hotel scene was bad?
...Like Kate bank robbing scene bad...

[myfourletterlie]

Did anyone else think that the Sayid/Ilanna hotel scene was bad?
...Like Kate bank robbing scene bad...

I was expecting her to like arrest him... through the whole scenes with her, I was just like, "okay, is she gonna capture him now?"

[higgy baby]

Did anyone else think that the Sayid/Ilanna hotel scene was bad?
...Like Kate bank robbing scene bad...

WHAT? sayid was about to tear that up... until he hesitated. When given the chance you never ever EVER hesitate. and BTW isnt this the second time he has gone to mash in some guts and got a gun pulled on him?

[Dharma Balloon]

I just thought it was an awfull plot device...

[saidsayid]

IRT the ann arbor question... pierre chang's origin on the lostpedia page has it as ann arbor... but that is the only place it has it listed. was someone a little anxious to update it or was it always there from the ARG or whatnot?

LOST podcast, Feb 12:

Damon Lindelof: ...My question is from Todd B. in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Carlton Cuse: Uhhh! Home of the Dharma Initiative…

hxxp://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/February_12%2C_2009

[m8o]

I wonder when it was that TPTB decided they'd shoot a child? They either a) were so successful making Ben a vile hated character they knew they could get away with that, or b) did that in response to most everyone wanting him dead, paraphrasingly 'you want Ben dead? I'll give you dead... how about trying as a child'. In either case, groundbreaking network tv! :o

[mynameisnick4]

WHAT? sayid was about to tear that up... until he hesitated. When given the chance you never ever EVER hesitate. and BTW isnt this the second time he has gone to mash in some guts and got a gun pulled on him?
Nah he got the deed done the first time. It was the morning after that she pulled the gun on him and shot him.

[OceanicSix815]

Funny , Im from Michigan, I lived once in Ann Arbor so who is a U of M fan of the writters....interesting....

Let's Go Mountaineers

[Lostie247]

You said it brotha. I think maybe there should be 2 epi threads. People who want to discuss the notion that Ben is dead and the rest of us.

He has played such a pivitol role in this show and has been so hated for his manipulative actions...he by far is the most evil of all...that most want to see him die...suffer or what ever...in this epi many realized that if he were to die then all the suffering he has had a hand in may not happen...

Ben learned the Secrets of the island by joing the others via Richard but his motivations are not rooted in the same convictions that the others have to protect the island...he has more sadistic motives fueld by how he had been raised by his father, hatred for all things Dharma and its origins...

So what is Bens motivation for manipulating the Losties to return to the island and if been kills Locke without compunction why get Syid to kill all of Widmores group...why not do it himself...which he did with Lockes escort that worked for Widmore...

[m8o]

Did anyone else think that the Sayid/Ilanna hotel scene was bad?
...Like Kate bank robbing scene bad... I can't believe Sayid was taken down so easily. ...hearken back to the woman he fell for and killed in the hotel room who worked for (we think) Widmore.

[Agent Graves]

I think it's very possible that Ben is alive and at the same time dead.

see, When Sayid shot Ben (12) This created two realities. One where Ben lives out to do all the harm that has come to pass and the other where there isn't a Ben to create the Purge. And since this season really seems to have been knee deep in Time Travel and such it can only mean that they are going to also involve Paradoxes and Alt. Realities.

In physics there is a very common observation and theory. Which goes like this; If you are sitting at the table and you've got two sandwiches in front of you one a tuna fish sandwich and the other a meatball sandwich..which ever one you choose there is an Alt. Universe is created due to the actions you've made.

So with that The Ben Killing creates one 'verse. And then there's another where the Killing hasn't taken place. My feeling is that Sun is in that 'verse.

Check it out:

Kate, Hurley, Jack = In Alpha 'Verse

Sayid,Sun, Frank = In the Ben 'Verse

Locke, Ben and that new guy = In The Omega 'Verse

This is can or may explain why everyone on the plain separated; Jack and clan popped up in the river on the island, Locke and crew ends up on the landing strip, Sun and Frank end up on the beach...

Now some may argue that this isn't possible because all of these people interact. Well yes this is true, but it is possible that these people can interact with each other because of the Alt 'Verse.

You know what I mean? It feels like all of these people seem to be on different planes of space...This is my feeling and I suspect that Faraday will do a better job of explaining it. Also the book that was shown, A Separate Reality the title alone is a wink at this alternative universe/dimension theory

[higgy baby]

My facebook status:

Josh ********** is glad that Sayid shot Ben. Never has shooting a little kid been funnier.

[myfourletterlie]

I wonder when it was that TPTB decided they'd shoot a child? They either a) were so successful making Ben a vile hated character they knew they could get away with that, or b) did that in response to most everyone wanting him dead, paraphrasingly 'you want Ben dead? I'll give you dead... how about trying as a child'. In either case, groundbreaking network tv! :o

My mother doesn't care that he was a child.
"Sayid just shot a kid!"
"He's not a kid, he's Ben."
I was kind of really shocked.. and she's more sensitive than me and she though he deserved it even if he was a child or not.

[Lostpedestrian]

Getting rid of 'whatever happened, happened' would ruin the show, imo. It's hard enough to follow now, but the writer's have done an incredible job of keeping out plot holes. Allowing alternate realities would undermine everything thats happened and destroy the plot, plot holes would become common... it'd all fall apart. They aren't going to posit the 'whatever happened, happened' rule only to get rid of it. We know the island 'chooses' people and those people live, no matter how hard they try to die or other people try to kill them.My thinking is very much aligned with yours. On the island, you're either a chosen one or you're not. Ben grows up. Why take the story anywhere else? You gotta think we have a few more Ben-centric episodes ahead of us.

[mynameisnick4]

I can't believe Sayid was taken down so easily. ...hearken back to the woman he fell for and killed in the hotel room who worked for (we think) Widmore.
Well he was downing $120 shots of MacCutcheon whisky like there was no tomorrow.

[OceanicSix815]

My facebook status:

Josh ********** is glad that Sayid shot Ben. Never has shooting a little kid been funnier.

Way to spoil it for any facebook friends who haven't seen the ep yet! lol Give them at least 24 hours to catch up for those that may have missed it!

[eeniac]

I am still searching for the books title, from the book that Ben gave Sayid.

"A Seperate Reality" by Carlos Castaneda. It's part 2 of The Teachings of Don Juan trilogy. I read one of 'em. I thought it was a buncha crap. Pretty popular in early '70's counterculture. Not really appropriate for Ben's age. Lotta peyote and mushrooms and pukin. Astral projection. Hippie crap.


I don't think it was LSD; that doesn't make people tell the unequivocal truth. Hell, it doesn't allow people to speak coherently whatsoever! Trust me...

More likely Sodium Pentathol or suchlike.


lol i just figured out who the actor is that plays roger linus... bens dad could throw a football clear over them mountains.

Heh Heh. Rico was dying to get back to '82. Roger has to wait five years!


And it was abandoned for being absolutely ineffective as one. There were other drugs tested by the CIA and MI6 that, however, may have been more effective. Or the show's writers just don't much about lsd...

Doubt it was LSD. I think someone in a roomful of writers would have pretty intimate knowledge of the stuff.


Did anyone catch that when they were voting to kill Syid that someone said that if they did not kill him they need to contact Ann Arbor? was that Right?

Dr. Chang was from Ann Arbor. University of Michigan is there. Lotta research.

[higgy baby]

at this point however, ben thinks sayid is a hostile... somewhere down the line he is going to find out the real truth about 815

[higgy baby]

Way to spoil it for any facebook friends who haven't seen the ep yet! lol Give them at least 24 hours to catch up for those that may have missed it!

my bizzle... my friends on the west coast all live in san diego and hawaii. they can kiss my butt.

lol i should put SPOILER ALERT at the beginning of my status.

[hanzoh1]

Hey, If anyone didn't watch the quick recap on ABC.com/lost they give you a hint ben is alive; they show him hooked up to a heart monitor in this weeks Lost Untangled. So, the alternate reality theory is dead.

[Gilliganista!]

I don't think it was LSD; that doesn't make people tell the unequivocal truth. Hell, it doesn't allow people to speak coherently whatsoever! Trust me...


actually, i'm pretty sure it was LSD. it was used as a truth serum in the '60s.


I was really getting a kick out of Mr. You holding the acid laced sugar cube with his fingers sans rubber gloves. He should have been tripping as much as Sayid! (well, he's probably in a constant altered state anyway)


And it was abandoned for being absolutely ineffective as one. There were other drugs tested by the CIA and MI6 that, however, may have been more effective. Or the show's writers just don't much about lsd...


i don't know of one truth serum that has ever been that effective, let alone one available in '77. what other truth serum do you know of that was administered exactly the way LSD was at the time?


Eh, I don't, just now that others were tested. And yes, I'll admit that the way they administered it made it look like LSD and that, actually, is probably on purpose. I'm just saying that LSD wouldn't actually have made him tell the truth like he did, and certainly wouldn't have allowed him to be that coherent in reality. Oh well.

Sodium Pentathol was the drug of choice for truth serum in the 1960's-70's--odorless, colorless, tasteless. Not sure why they wanted to make Oldham seem so hyper-bad and then he just laced a sugar cube with something. LSD would probably be an uncertain chemical to use, since they really did not know Sayid's history, tolerance, etc. Also, just a bit creepy seeing the guy from Newhart--Larry of "Larry, Darryl, and my other brother Darryl--as the torturer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhart


Well, I was suggesting that based on the potential of two timelines. I'm not sure I believe that there are two timelines now (it makes things WAY too complicated), but I was just postulating that this could be an explanation for the weird state we saw Dharmaville in last week.


it was abandoned...all the others went to the temple at bens urging before the mercs got on the island. then the house claire was in got blown up. now it's 3 years later, and thats assuming that sun and frank et all are in 2007. we don't really know, but it's a safe assumption since they landed on the runway that sawyer, kate and the others built...again, an assumption.


...
Ben -- is alive. His presence in 2008 on the Island means he doesn't die, apparently. As someone pointed out above, the picture in the Welcome Station with Hurley, Jack, and Kate proves the past where Sayid shoots Young Ben is linked to the future where 2008 Ben is still alive. We've also seen flashbacks of Ben in 1992 committing patricide against Roger during the Purge-- so he'll have to survive somehow (possibly due to the Island's magic).
...

Three points: Ben is alive in 2007 on Hydra Island, last time we knew, no "The Island." Could make a difference. Then, if Ben is the chosen one by 1977, would the Island "security system" kick in to protect him? In other words, could Smokey have switched places in the jungle as Sayid was struglling with Jin? It seems unlikley, but maybe Smokey took acting lessons to keep young Ben alive. Need a screen cap of young Ben's glasses before he is shot point blank. Third point, if Dharmaville is abandoned in 2007, who's paying the electric bills? :D The house Christian steps out of has lights he apparently switches on in "Namaste"! Unless, the whole scene was allegorical, Chrisitan as the keeper of the records on some alternate plane.

[eeniac]

WARNING: CHEESE AHEAD!

Maybe Ben had the wooden figurine that Annie(?) made for him in his shirt pocket and the bullet hit that. Awww!

[OceanicSix815]

aaaaaaaaaaaahahhahahaha first post spoiler!!!!

and you just re-posted the spoiler...good job. this is his 1st post...that happens alot. this is your 126th. What's your excuse?

[heyysteph]

My mother doesn't care that he was a child.
"Sayid just shot a kid!"
"He's not a kid, he's Ben."
I was kind of really shocked.. and she's more sensitive than me and she though he deserved it even if he was a child or not.

woww. your ma must really hate ben. but ben didn't deserve it at the time! what had he done to anyone at that point? imo sayid helped create the manipulative person ben became.

[ceelynncee]

I wonder when it was that TPTB decided they'd shoot a child? They either a) were so successful making Ben a vile hated character they knew they could get away with that, or b) did that in response to most everyone wanting him dead, paraphrasingly 'you want Ben dead? I'll give you dead... how about trying as a child'. In either case, groundbreaking network tv! :o
You know,Stephen King actually broke the "kill a child" mold,in Cugo.But,I'll bet a million dollars that young Ben is not dead.

[higgy baby]

and you just re-posted the spoiler...good job. this is his 1st post...that happens alot. this is your 126th. What's your excuse?

removed :D

[OceanicSix815]

removed :D

Muchos gracias.

[Lostpedestrian]

Also, just a bit creepy seeing the guy from Newhart--Larry of "Larry, Darryl, and my other brother Darryl--as the torturer.Could this wink have been any more obvious? That series has a memorable finale based on altered consciousness. These guys are clever.

[Lostie247]

Hey, If anyone didn't watch the quick recap on ABC.com/lost they give you a hint ben is alive; they show him hooked up to a heart monitor in this weeks Lost Untangled. So, the alternate reality theory is dead.

well this explains why Jack is back in the 70's ...he is there to Save Ben
Julia was there to help Ethan to be Born
Sayid to Kill Ben...how this helps if he remains alive...not sure...
Sawyer= the rent'a Cop , save the time travlers and help Syid to escape
Kate=...hmmm do they have any banks to rob
Hurley =..he probably leads them in future Bingo games wher the number come from! and then alters them....

[higgy baby]

Could this wink have been any more obvious? That series has a memorable finale based on altered consciousness. These guys are clever.

im gonna be mighty upset if this whole thing ends with bob newhart in a bed and kate pulls the covers off and the whole thing was a dream. unless she blows up his house afterwards.

[Gilliganista!]

im gonna be mighty upset if this whole thing ends with bob newhart in a bed and kate pulls the covers off and the whole thing was a dream. unless she blows up his house afterwards.

Best. Ending. Ever.

[Hugo Rocks]

He has played such a pivitol role in this show and has been so hated for his manipulative actions...[/B]he by far is the most evil of all...that most want to see him die...suffer or what ever...in this epi many realized that if he were to die then all the suffering he has had a hand in may not happen...

Which is exactly why he can't die. I understand why people want to hate him. But people also love to hate him. Otherwise, a boring show.

[higgy baby]

well this explains why Jack is back in the 70's ...he is there to Save Ben
Julia was there to help Ethan to be Born
Sayid to Kill Ben...how this helps if he remains alive...not sure...
Sawyer= the rent'a Cop , save the time travlers and help Syid to escape
Kate=...hmmm do they have any banks to rob
Hurley =..he probably leads them in future Bingo games wher the number come from! and then alters them....

you might be kidding about the numbers but that actually seems pretty plausible.

along this line then sun and lapidus would be in 2007 for a reason also... but i suppose the "journey" that christian alludes to would satisfy that.

[Time Will Tell]

I just can't believe Sayid shot young Ben!

Sayid should've put the gun in Ben's hand and made it totally look like suicide. :D

[OceanicSix815]

Which is exactly why he can't die. I understand why people want to hate him. But people also love to hate him. Otherwise, a boring show.

Agreed. I want Ben to stay around until the last episode!

[hanzoh1]

Guys watch Lost Untangled; just do it. it will end the ben arguements on whether he is dead or alive.

[ladypaige86]

yes it was awesome they shot a kid.
yes it was even more awesome the kid was ben.

but.

we all know.

they are gonna pull some island magick and he's gonna come back to life.
and be really pissed off.

or richard will do whatever weird shit he does and then ben will go ahead with the purge.

remember...WHATEVER HAPPENED HAPPENED.

so oh well.

nice cliff hanger tho.

[heyysteph]

More likely Sodium Pentathol or suchlike.

Doubt it was LSD. I think someone in a roomful of writers would have pretty intimate knowledge of the stuff.

sodium pentathol is injected, not dropped onto a sugar cube like LSD. it's also just as unreliable as LSD when it comes to telling the truth.

i'm 99.9% sure it was LSD (or else something they made up themselves) & i'm assuming sayid told the truth so freely because he wanted to tell the truth.

[HenryG@le]

I don't think they can just kill off Ben like that. He's one of the only reasons I keep watching the show dammit! One of the best episodes yet, so intense! The Lost God's really did it this time :)

[Bloodbath]

WARNING: CHEESE AHEAD!

Maybe Ben had the wooden figurine that Annie(?) made for him in his shirt pocket and the bullet hit that. Awww!

4 Cheese Pizza

[Lostpedestrian]

im gonna be mighty upset if this whole thing ends with bob newhart in a bed and kate pulls the covers off and the whole thing was a dream. unless she blows up his house afterwards.Seriously, if we meet a character named Tommy Auschlander I'm gonna quit watching.

[Bloodbath]

Guys watch Lost Untangled; just do it. it will end the ben arguements on whether he is dead or alive.

Just tell us what happens. :P

[Lostie247]

So its interesting that the DI being the social experiment that they are have a Syid, u know Daryl character, ..out living ouside the rest of the Dharmies..like he was not maybe known to exist by the rest of the Dharma clan or for that mater the DI leaders in Ann Arbor! ... Sort of like the witch doctor of the group... why? weird.

[haner]

Sawyer was annoying as hell throughout the episode though. Really out of character. Kind of made me appreciate Jack more.

[SawyerShotFirst]

After tonight's episode, I could not resist plunging completely down the rabbit hole and finally posting here. These are just a few thoughts that have been rattling around my head:

1. There is no way that Ben is dead. That would destabilize the remainder of the narrative in a way that no one (not even the writers of Lost) would be able to repair in the time the series has left. Plus, it would just be dumb. Ben is one of, if not the best characters in the history of television. There is a lot more drama to be wrung out of this character. There's no way that the writers would kill him off at this point. He may die one day, but it will surely be in the "present," likely in one of the final episodes of the show.

2. I think that Ben getting shot will somehow be explained/rationalized by Richard as being a "test" to prove Ben's worthiness for admission into the Hostiles/Others. Somehow, Sayid will get to Richard who will then realize that he needs to approach Ben again. Alternatively, it is possible that Ben will survive because of the Island and Richard finding out about this from Sayid or another person will lead to him realizing that Ben is, in fact, "special" and deserving of joining this faction.

3. This is pretty far-out, but I'll throw it out anyway. What proof (I say, proof) do we have that the "Ben Linus" in the present is the same Ben Linus who just got shot by Sayid? Isn't it possible that, given what we know of the future "Ben's" conniving that he may have just assumed the identity of this real past Ben and used it for his own purposes? In that case, "Ben" of the future could literally be anyone, even, dare I say it...Jacob??

That's all for now. I expect to see about 25 more pages when I wake up in the morning.

[myfourletterlie]

I wonder where Sayid is going to go?
Probably not to hang out with the Hostiles.
Maybe he'll be the one to actually find Rose and Bernard :p

[Gilliganista!]

...
3. This is pretty far-out, but I'll throw it out anyway. What proof (I say, proof) do we have that the "Ben Linus" in the present is the same Ben Linus who just got shot by Sayid? Isn't it possible that, given what we know of the future "Ben's" conniving that he may have just assumed the identity of this real past Ben and used it for his own purposes? In that case, "Ben" of the future could literally be anyone, even, dare I say it...Jacob??
...

Or, Henry Gale?!?!?!?!?!?!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Eratosthenes]

We don't know if Ben is dead or not. When we first saw Locke he was talking to Caeser and we saw all those bodies that were injured from the crash and Ben's body was among him. This could be because he got shot as a kid. This scene must have been after Sun took the raft to the main island. Thoughts?????

[Agent Graves]

We don't know if Ben is dead or not. When we first saw Locke he was talking to Caeser and we saw all those bodies that were injured from the crash and Ben's body was among him. This could be because he got shot as a kid. This scene must have been after Sun took the raft to the main island. Thoughts?????

Thats what I had said!

sob...no one reads my posts.

sigh.

[Lostie247]

We don't know if Ben is dead or not. When we first saw Locke he was talking to Caeser and we saw all those bodies that were injured from the crash and Ben's body was among him. This could be because he got shot as a kid. This scene must have been after Sun took the raft to the main island. Thoughts?????


Agreed, this was after Sun and Lapidus left, the bounty hunter lady told Locke that the pilot and a woman had taken one of the dugouts in the middle of the night...last week was a backflash before the epi of Lock and ceasars discussion and finding Ben in sickbay...he looked a little worse however for someone who just got knocked on the head...

[Phil Taylor]

When I saw William Sanderson in the opening credits I thought ... hmmmmm... who's he gonna be ... didn't think he would be "our you" though. Nice casting.

And no way Ben is dead ... no way in hell (although he should really be there by now). :D

[m8o]

You know,Stephen King actually broke the "kill a child" mold,in Cugo.But,I'll bet a million dollars that young Ben is not dead. I won't argue that ever. Was just saying what I did in the sense of possible PTB's reason/reasoning; "shoot a child" is more accurate than "kill a child".

Thank you for correcting me on Stephen King breaking the ground 1st... but was that broadcast on Network TV or Cable/SciFi?

[Steebin]

ok I dont know if anyone mentioned this yet, but does it seem like Ben is skipping to points in time as he wishes? I may have to watch it again but it looks like he is wearing the same clothes when he meets sayid to tell him john was dead as the time he was on the phone "beat up" and when he gets on the 316 flight. Just something seems odd there to me.

[Lostpedestrian]

A few thoughts on this episode...

1. The scene when Sayid tells Sawyer he knows why he's come back is brilliant. He had made up his mind to kill Hitler. But, he wasn't with Faraday after time started skipping and didn't realize "whatever happened happened". Say hello to Dr. Frankenstein.

2. Whose bright idea was it to put Horace in charge? You'd think there would be a couple of smart folks running a project as advanced as the DI. But instead, Radical-Zinski gets a vote...WTF?

3. All these winks at the Wizard of Oz and Newhart are really making me think we are headed towards a final twist based on altered consciousness. With time travel and mystical healing as plot devices there is no way to predict which way this show will go. The possibilities are staggering.

4. For possibly the first time in his life, Sawyer has a stable job and a happy home. I don't blame him for wanting to protect that...but he totally sold out Sayid tonight. Not cool.

5. A Hostile escapes...kidnaps young Ben...and shoots him in the chest. If DI weren't warmongering before, they surely are now. Is this related to the "incident"? Is it the beginning of the "war"?

[Time Will Tell]

im gonna be mighty upset if this whole thing ends with bob newhart in a bed and kate pulls the covers off and the whole thing was a dream. unless she blows up his house afterwards.

Which would also solve The Lavender Sweater Lady mystery. ;)

[Ever Adrift]

Which is exactly why he can't die. I understand why people want to hate him. But people also love to hate him. Otherwise, a boring show.

Am I the only person here who loves Ben? Lost has a top notch cast, not a bad actor among them but Michael Emerson, imo, is in a league of his own. Great actor, amazing character. More importantly, Ben is central to the mystery of Lost; I have a feeling that once we understand his full story we'll largely understand the show. Ben is going to make it through to the end of season 6, he's as central as Locke and Jack and, quite frankly, more central...

[Ever Adrift]

I wonder where Sayid is going to go?
Probably not to hang out with the Hostiles.
Maybe he'll be the one to actually find Rose and Bernard :p

Richard Alpert already has a decent idea of flight 316 even in the 1970s. It's still quite possible that that is where Rose and Bernard are, too. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine Sayid ending up with the hostiles; it would certainly help bring some answers regarding their past.

[Ever Adrift]

We don't know if Ben is dead or not. When we first saw Locke he was talking to Caeser and we saw all those bodies that were injured from the crash and Ben's body was among him. This could be because he got shot as a kid. This scene must have been after Sun took the raft to the main island. Thoughts?????


Again, just have to say it so I can feel fully vindicated in the coming weeks: Ben is alive. Ben will remain alive for this season and we'll see him through to the series finale next year.

[Lostpedestrian]

Richard Alpert already has a decent idea of flight 316 even in the 1970s. It's still quite possible that that is where Rose and Bernard are, too. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine Sayid ending up with the hostiles; it would certainly help bring some answers regarding their past.I'm still waiting for a Richard-Centric. That's gonna be a dandy of an episode. Richard has lots of secrets.

[amayaconfused]

If the 2007 that we saw Sun in (when she spoke with Christian) was post Young Ben being shot, then why was Old Ben still around? Wouldn't he have vanished in the flash?

Big Ben may have vanished, as we have not seen him in 1977 since Sun bashed him on the head and left him on the small Island.

Richard told Lil Ben to be patient, and to really,really think about . Then tonight Lil Ben told Sayid the whole story, thinking Richard had sent Sayid to get him

[Steebin]

Am I the only person here who loves Ben? Lost has a top notch cast, not a bad actor among them but Michael Emerson, imo, is in a league of his own. Great actor, amazing character. More importantly, Ben is central to the mystery of Lost; I have a feeling that once we understand his full story we'll largely understand the show. Ben is going to make it through to the end of season 6, he's as central as Locke and Jack and, quite frankly, more central...


Yes, he is, I agree 100%, he is like the Randall Flagg of Lost ;)

[Bloodbath]

Am I the only person here who loves Ben? Lost has a top notch cast, not a bad actor among them but Michael Emerson, imo, is in a league of his own. Great actor, amazing character. More importantly, Ben is central to the mystery of Lost; I have a feeling that once we understand his full story we'll largely understand the show. Ben is going to make it through to the end of season 6, he's as central as Locke and Jack and, quite frankly, more central...

Ben is my favorite. I think a lot of other people feel the same way. ;)

[tabula rasa]

Am I the only person here who loves Ben? Lost has a top notch cast, not a bad actor among them but Michael Emerson, imo, is in a league of his own. Great actor, amazing character. More importantly, Ben is central to the mystery of Lost; I have a feeling that once we understand his full story we'll largely understand the show. Ben is going to make it through to the end of season 6, he's as central as Locke and Jack and, quite frankly, more central...


Well said and ditto!

Ben, in my opinion, is one of the most interesting characters that Lost has. Nothing is straight forward with him, you never know what is a lie, a fact, or what. Is he good? Is he bad? Is he completely self motivated or just partially?

I like the fact that he is a master manipulator who is literally playing chess with everyone around him. The more we learn about him, especially since learning about his childhood, the easier it is to see why his is a cold individual. His mother died in childbirth, so every birthday he has is also the anniversary of his own mothers death. His father was a drunk asshole, who would beat him and psychologically abuse him. I mean, you have to feel a little bad for the guy. I think, and hope, he will be the ultimate anti-hero.

Also, Emerson does an awesome job, you can't deny that.

Lost would be a lot less interesting without Ben Linus. I'm not saying he makes the show, but he makes it even better!

[Ever Adrift]

Well said and ditto!

Ben, in my opinion, is one of the most interesting characters that Lost has. Nothing is straight forward with him, you never know what is a lie, a fact, or what. Is he good? Is he bad? Is he completely self motivated or just partially?

I like the fact that he is a master manipulator who is literally playing chess with everyone around him. The more we learn about him, especially since learning about his childhood, the easier it is to see why his is a cold individual. His mother died in childbirth, so every birthday he has is also the aniversary of his own mothers death. His father was a drunk asshole, who would beat him and psychologically abuse him. I mean, you can't help feel a little bad for the guy. I think, and hope, he will be the ultimate anti-hero.

Also, Emerson does an awesome job, you can't deny that.

Lost would be a lot less interesting with out Ben Linus. I'm not saying he makes the show, but he makes it even better!

I just want to say that Ben will never be shown to be entirely bad or good; he's too complex a character. What we do know is even after his seeming 'banishment' from the island, he still has some unknown motives (and a surprising amount of resources/money) for returning.

[eeniac]

sodium pentathol is injected, not dropped onto a sugar cube like LSD. it's also just as unreliable as LSD when it comes to telling the truth.

i'm 99.9% sure it was LSD (or else something they made up themselves) & i'm assuming sayid told the truth so freely because he wanted to tell the truth.

It is colorless, odorless, tasteless. and can be administered orally. I think you just want it to be acid. It really doesn't matter what it was. I personally don't think it was acid because (I have it on good authority) that much acid would make one FREAK OUT FOR DAYS.