Whats up with Dr Candle (Chang) looking at his arm...

[Oggylu]

In the con vid he blankly stares at his arm and if anyone knows he had a prosthetic arm.....in the video he has full mobility......the orientation video he looked like he was using a prosthetic arm.....and in the comic con vid he has full mobility wasnt the orientation vid for dharma made before the comic con vid....im confused. someon bring light to me i think that stare has more to it

[ItsAKey]

Well if Danny's the camera man then he's prolly seen the swan video and knows that Halliwax loses his arm. So he's prolly thinking "Oh damn...."

[Oggylu]

:(....yea your right i was hoping this vid was takin after the swan vid.....boo

[Mr. Writer]

The new video is believed to be dating back to 1978, whereas the Swan Orientation film bears a copyright date of 1980. Since Dr. Chang has his prosthetic arm in the Swan video and in it discusses a certain "incident" that has occurred in the meantime, I think it's fair to assume this could coincide with the loss of his arm...

[DrinkDharmaBeer]

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pierre_Chang

Chang had a prosthetic in some videos, but he did not in the Orchid training video and the Pearl.

[Mr. Writer]

That's true. An attempt to put the videos in chronological order (those in italic are just guesses, since there can't be put a specific time stamp on those):



1977 or earlier: Barracks video (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Barracks_video) - Dr. Chang doesn't move his arm, but according to the timeline he shouldn't have lost it yet.
1978: Dharma booth video (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/DHARMA_booth_video) - Dr. Chang has still got his arm.
1980: Pearl video (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pearl_orientation_video) - arm still present.
1980: Orchid video (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Orchid_Orientation_video) - again, arm still present.
1980: Flame computer video (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Flame_computer) - Dr. Chang appears to have a prosthetic arm.
1980: Swan video (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Swan_orientation_film) - again, the prosthetic arm.


Of course, the Pearl and Orchid videos could be switched around, as well as the Flame and Swan videos. But I'm sure this timeline's fairly accurate.

And I do think the two videos in which Dr. Chang shows his prosthetic arm give certain clues to what may have caused his injury: after all, the Flame computer video is a security measure against "an incursion by the Hostiles", while the Swan video mentions "the incident"...

[Oggylu]

i feel theres something to this

[Faradayfan4815]

i feel theres something to this

Yeah, it reinforces the fact that Dr. Chang loses his arm sometime between the Orchid Video and the Swan Video. The only new thing it may be telling us is that Dr. Chang is aware that he is going to lose his arm.

[Beetlebum]

Yeah I think what is assumed is that the visitor tells him what happens to his arm. If the visitor is Faraday though, how does he know? I don't remember him watching any of the training videos...

[smitty4815162342]

Yeah I think what is assumed is that the visitor tells him what happens to his arm. If the visitor is Faraday though, how does he know? I don't remember him watching any of the training videos...

Of course you don't we have not watched his whole life. He knew how to de-activate the Tempest, he even knew about the top secret Orchid do you really think he's never seen an orientation?

[John Locke is Kobe Bryant]

great point smitty, for all we know Daniel could've been one of the head honchos for Dharma, but escaped before the purge happened.

[Chioma]

thanks to the comic-con recruitment video we know that an upcoming question on one of our tests will be "What would you sacrifice to stay alive?"...since we of the internet will not be able to give a random answer commonality suggests that "my left arm" will be one of the choices...

this has me thinking that chang doesn't lose it in this large scale incident we are all expecting, maybe he sacrifices it intentionally...

or maybe it was simply ripped off by an angry polar bear...

[booradley]

What would you sacrifice to stay alive? ... commonality suggests that "my left arm" will be one of the choices

Pretty astute for a first post. Welcome! :)

[Rex the Runt]

I reckon Candle / Halowax / Chang is Montand...

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Montand

Rosseau's memory of her arrival is always flaky.
She arrived with a "science expedition team"
Montand "lost his arm"

[Oggylu]

I reckon Candle / Halowax / Chang is Montand...

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Montand

Rosseau's memory of her arrival is always flaky.
She arrived with a "science expedition team"
Montand "lost his arm"

thats plausible stuff right there nice find

[Faradayfan4815]

Wasn't Montand part of the expedition? Didn't they arrive on a ship approximately 16 years before Oceanic 815 crashed? Wouldn't that put their arrival in 1988? Didn't the orientation video showing Chang with a prosthetic arm have a copyright date of 1980?

[Julietlover42]

Wasn't Montand part of the expedition? Didn't they arrive on a ship approximately 16 years before Oceanic 815 crashed? Wouldn't that put their arrival in 1988? Didn't the orientation video showing Chang with a prosthetic arm have a copyright date of 1980?

So very true.

[Faradayfan4815]

Besides, Chang can't be Montand because he's already Jacob.

[TimeTravelingBunny]

Wasn't Montand part of the expedition? Didn't they arrive on a ship approximately 16 years before Oceanic 815 crashed? Wouldn't that put their arrival in 1988? Didn't the orientation video showing Chang with a prosthetic arm have a copyright date of 1980?

There's a theory somewhere on lostpedia which suggests not only that Chang is indeed Montand, but that Rousseau was on the island because part of a Dharma psychological experiment. The theory goes on to suggest that all of the members of her "scientific team," except for Rousseau herself, were members of the Dharma Initiative. The point of the psychological experiment was to see how much a pregnant, stranded, woman could endure. Finally, the theory suggests that it was Rousseau who is responsible for Chang's missing arm. Rousseau claims that she kills all of the members of her scientific team because they had "the sickness." Maybe Rousseau injured Chang in some way, shape or form, causing him to lose his arm? Maybe Chang purposely lost his arm in an accident to prove to Rousseau that what was happening on the island was indeed real? Either way, I think that the idea that Chang is Montand is very interesting and plausible.

[Faradayfan4815]

There's a theory somewhere on lostpedia which suggests not only that Chang is indeed Montand, but that Rousseau was on the island because part of a Dharma psychological experiment. The theory goes on to suggest that all of the members of her "scientific team," except for Rousseau herself, were members of the Dharma Initiative. The point of the psychological experiment was to see how much a pregnant, stranded, woman could endure. Finally, the theory suggests that it was Rousseau who is responsible for Chang's missing arm. Rousseau claims that she kills all of the members of her scientific team because they had "the sickness." Maybe Rousseau injured Chang in some way, shape or form, causing him to lose his arm? Maybe Chang purposely lost his arm in an accident to prove to Rousseau that what was happening on the island was indeed real? Either way, I think that the idea that Chang is Montand is very interesting and plausible.

That is an interesting theory, no doubt. The timeline doesn't quite make sense, though. Alex being about 16 in 2004 kind of throws a wrench in the whole thing. If I remember correctly, Sayid also calculated the length of Rousseau's broadcast being about 16 years. If Chang did lose his arm some time in 1980 and after the staging of the crash of Rousseau's expedition, that would make Alex about 24 at the time of Oceanic 815's crash.

[booradley]

Candle-is-Montand theories have been floating around ever since he first showed up in an orientation video with a prosthetic arm :)

[YouAllEverybody21]

im pretty sure that time travel is the solution to all the show's problems:p (j.k)

[Sobakasu]

Candle-is-Montand theories have been floating around ever since he first showed up in an orientation video with a prosthetic arm :)

Jeepers... this is the first I've heard of this theory, then. I need to get out (virtually) more. :D
I like it, though. Pierre Chang... "Montand"... he could be French Vietnamese!

It's possible the Others used their resources (including but not limited to Room 23) to cause enough psychological trauma to Rousseau that she eventually believed a story they fabricated for her. She might also have mixed details from her real experience (a member of a science team, crashed on the island) with the details from the Others' story (whatever that may be).
Don't know what that implies, though.

[quadrophenic]

It implies that the Internet is full of people who wish they wrote for the show. I just love when backstories are completely made up by theorists and the Internet says "Yes!" :)

[corbienne]

Jeepers... this is the first I've heard of this theory, then. I need to get out (virtually) more. :D
I like it, though. Pierre Chang... "Montand"... he could be French Vietnamese!

It's possible the Others used their resources (including but not limited to Room 23) to cause enough psychological trauma to Rousseau that she eventually believed a story they fabricated for her. She might also have mixed details from her real experience (a member of a science team, crashed on the island) with the details from the Others' story (whatever that may be).
Don't know what that implies, though.

It implies that, if the supporters of the "Danielle is really an other/with Dharma" theory are right, that Ben really is Alex's father, and that he and Danielle were lovers! :eek:

[TimeTravelingBunny]

It implies that, if the supporters of the "Danielle is really an other/with Dharma" theory are right, that Ben really is Alex's father, and that he and Danielle were lovers! :eek:

What a cool idea...that Ben REALLY could be Alex's dad. That would totally work with the theory that Danielle was involved in the DI psychological experiment I mentioned earlier. LOVE IT

[booradley]

Jeepers... this is the first I've heard of this theory, then. I need to get out (virtually) more.

So, technically, you need to stay in more. ;)

[Chioma]

Pretty astute for a first post. Welcome! :)

*says thanks eons later*

but time is not time at all...heh-heh..

i am new to lost, but not to its themes and certainly not to ARGs...tangents are fun and i enjoy taking things waaay too far sometimes, but it never fails that the answer is usually right infront of you and the theory which is closest to the truth is always a very simple one...

[Oggylu]

It implies that the Internet is full of people who wish they wrote for the show. I just love when backstories are completely made up by theorists and the Internet says "Yes!" :)

isnt that what 50% of the internet consists of.................................

[LadyTesla]

I've seen it on another thread, but don't know quite where to look for it...does anyone know the rough timeline of the video releases? I think most of the copyrights say 1980, including at least one with and one without arm for Chang.

This leads to 2 options:

A) Chang loses his arm sometime during 1980

B) The Dharma videos are all copyrighted 1980 regardless of when they were made

I'd like to see that time line again, because there is some significant Chang aging between them and I think it's fishy.

Either way, I'm of the opinion that Chang lost his arm during the Incident in the Swan, and it's quite possible that said Incident was caused by the "broadcast" through the pinhole.

Any takers?

[Oggylu]

I've seen it on another thread, but don't know quite where to look for it...does anyone know the rough timeline of the video releases? I think most of the copyrights say 1980, including at least one with and one without arm for Chang.

This leads to 2 options:

A) Chang loses his arm sometime during 1980

B) The Dharma videos are all copyrighted 1980 regardless of when they were made

I'd like to see that time line again, because there is some significant Chang aging between them and I think it's fishy.

Either way, I'm of the opinion that Chang lost his arm during the Incident in the Swan, and it's quite possible that said Incident was caused by the "broadcast" through the pinhole.

Any takers?

what broadcast if you can refresh my memory a bit?

[LadyTesla]

I'm referring, of course, to the video released this year at Comic-Con that start this whole mess. :)

Chang says: If I can keep this pinhole open long enough, you should be receiving my message roughly thirty years...blah blah blah.

I'm suggesting, as others have, that when initially recorded, this video was a live "broadcast" through a pinhole in the space-time continuum. Considering his earlier statement in the video "I have one chance at this", I theorize that the disturbances caused by sending the video through time are, in fact, responsible for the "incident" that renders the Swan Station impotent...if you'll excuse the phrase.

;)

[TimeTravelingBunny]

I'm referring, of course, to the video released this year at Comic-Con that start this whole mess. :)

Chang says: If I can keep this pinhole open long enough, you should be receiving my message roughly thirty years...blah blah blah.

I'm suggesting, as others have, that when initially recorded, this video was a live "broadcast" through a pinhole in the space-time continuum. Considering his earlier statement in the video "I have one chance at this", I theorize that the disturbances caused by sending the video through time are, in fact, responsible for the "incident" that renders the Swan Station impotent...if you'll excuse the phrase.

;)

I agree that Chang lost his arm in The Swan. I believe that "The Incident," which occurred in The Swan, is probably how he lost his arm. I started a thread in the main forum about my theories...here's the link: http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=17482

[LadyTesla]

TTB, I've read your theories, both in that thread, and at DarkUFO (I actually commented on one yesterday). I like your ideas, however, it's just now occurred to me:

Chang looks in his arm in the video while talking about the purge. We know he looses it before the purge. (We don't even know if he makes it all the way to the purge.) Not important.

What is important is that Faraday never saw (to the best of our knowledge) any of the DHARMA videos. Therefore, how in the wide world of sports would he even know that Chang was due to lose an arm?

This disgruntles me, significantly. Can anyone offer a solution to this quandry?

[smitty4815162342]

TTB, I've read your theories, both in that thread, and at DarkUFO (I actually commented on one yesterday). I like your ideas, however, it's just now occurred to me:

Chang looks in his arm in the video while talking about the purge. We know he looses it before the purge. (We don't even know if he makes it all the way to the purge.) Not important.

What is important is that Faraday never saw (to the best of our knowledge) any of the DHARMA videos. Therefore, how in the wide world of sports would he even know that Chang was due to lose an arm?

This disgruntles me, significantly. Can anyone offer a solution to this quandry?

As I have said before Faraday would have seen the videos ...he must of. He knew of top secret things like the Orchid and how to shut down the Tempest so my guess is that he's seen an orientation.

Or..

He might have writen in his notebook.. "Chang has one arm".

[LadyTesla]

Perhaps...although I'm more inclined to think he's a physicist and understand how the chemical components of the Tempest gases work and his knowledge of the Orchid comes from his time spent on the Island in the 70s. But you could be right. Maybe Widmore has all of the DHARMA videos in his own personal library and loaned them to Dan for the freighter ride. :D

[smitty4815162342]

Perhaps...although I'm more inclined to think he's a physicist and understand how the chemical components of the Tempest gases work and his knowledge of the Orchid comes from his time spent on the Island in the 70s. But you could be right. Maybe Widmore has all of the DHARMA videos in his own personal library and loaned them to Dan for the freighter ride. :D

I meant to say that if he knew of the orchid, tempest, secondary protocol, then he has probably seen the videos. Once Dan goes back in time I will be suprised if he goes to the Tempest (and he clearly knew where it was) also I believe that the hostiles converted the Tempest power station to become the Tempest gas factory, I know there are a couple of holes in this but I just can see Dharma building a gas factory that would wipe out the barracks. Ok the barracks might get taken over but would the tempest not be taken over to?

[LadyTesla]

I don't know. Perhaps the Tempest's original function as a gas facility had something to do with the quarantine imposed after the Incident? I'm sure the Hostiles didn't convert it...it was an active station and then used for the Purge. They would have had to storm the castle, so to speak, much in advance to make the neccessary modifications. Seems a little risky.

I can see DHARMA having a station that could wipe out everyone and start all over. Keep people quiet about the super secret chrononautical bunnies.

[smitty4815162342]

I don't know. Perhaps the Tempest's original function as a gas facility had something to do with the quarantine imposed after the Incident? I'm sure the Hostiles didn't convert it...it was an active station and then used for the Purge. They would have had to storm the castle, so to speak, much in advance to make the neccessary modifications. Seems a little risky.

I can see DHARMA having a station that could wipe out everyone and start all over. Keep people quiet about the super secret chrononautical bunnies.

The Tempest is a power station. I just think if they DID wan't to build a gas factory then why merge it with a power station. Mabey the power station ran on chemical reactions or something and it was not that much effort to "convert" it. Also would it not be risky for the D.I to have a gas factory because in the wrong hands and bye, bye, Dharma.

[depalm]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but i'm sure the person chang calls out to is Jennifer, could this be Jennifer Gale?

[smitty4815162342]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but i'm sure the person chang calls out to is Jennifer, could this be Jennifer Gale?

Screw Jacob, I just killed a kitten.

Nah i'm joking welcome to Lostpedia, yeah the "Jennifer thing" was debated for a while (not the J.Gale one though nice thinking ;) but most are agreed on it being either "Stanislaw" or "Damit Laura". Have a look round you will find a thread on it.

[TimeTravelingBunny]

TTB, I've read your theories, both in that thread, and at DarkUFO (I actually commented on one yesterday). I like your ideas, however, it's just now occurred to me:

Chang looks in his arm in the video while talking about the purge. We know he looses it before the purge. (We don't even know if he makes it all the way to the purge.) Not important.

What is important is that Faraday never saw (to the best of our knowledge) any of the DHARMA videos. Therefore, how in the wide world of sports would he even know that Chang was due to lose an arm?

This disgruntles me, significantly. Can anyone offer a solution to this quandry?


I just always assumed that Faraday and Charlotte were Dharma kids. He probably saw whatever videos while he lived on the island for however long. We haven't learned anything about his schooling except for college--same thing with Charlotte. I figure however he's getting place to place, he's time traveling.

[LadyTesla]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but i'm sure the person chang calls out to is Jennifer, could this be Jennifer Gale?

If you look at the LP page for the Dharma Booth Video, Francois Chau (the actor who plays Chang) has confirmed that the name he says is "Lara". So...sad, but no. Yet another dead end.

[LadyTesla]

The Tempest is a power station. I just think if they DID wan't to build a gas factory then why merge it with a power station. Mabey the power station ran on chemical reactions or something and it was not that much effort to "convert" it. Also would it not be risky for the D.I to have a gas factory because in the wrong hands and bye, bye, Dharma.

Mildly off topic, but:

It occurs to me that perhaps the DI converted a portion of the Tempest power station into a "gas factory" as a weapon against the hostiles? Much in the way gas masks were standard issue during WW2, all Dharma people would know not to leave home without it, so if they heard the signal they could just *pop* it on, and be on their merry way. Perhaps also why the Swan hatch was "quarantined"? They were cut off from direct communication outside, so just better safe than sorry?


((((Ooooo. Double posting. Mea culpa))))