3x19 The Brig

[Richard Was Here]

This episode bothers me.

John couldn't kill his father and have that on his conscience...so he gets Sawyer to do it, without a care in the world about Sawyer's conscience?

See, that's the sort of thing that blows me away about Locke. He is really one of the most selfish people on the island. Always making unilateral decisions that benefit HIS agenda...but which impact others immensely.

He does it on a grand scale with blowing up the sub (eliminating everyone's chance of getting off the island), and with refusing to allow Eko to continue entering the numbers (risking the very lives of everyone on the island). But this is just another example of it.

He constantly plays god with other people's lives to suit his own personal quest to 'find himself'. And it's horrible.

No consideration at all for others.

This was the main reason I was always on Jack's side of the Jack/Locke rivalry.

[Dr. Chameleon]

^^ Exactly! I was so digusted by what Locke does here, just when Sawyer (for me) was finally getting a bit likeable, Locke goes and uses him in such a selfish, devastating way.

[Richard Was Here]

^ And to add insult to injury, THEN goes and takes credit for killing him with The Others.

If killing his father was a test, he cheated like hell. And laid a MURDER on someone else's conscience in the process.

Very nice.

And then people wonder why I like Jack (and Sawyer too, for that matter) better than Locke.

[Dr. Chameleon]

Exactly! And although I'm liking Jack less as time goes on, I feel like I can at least sympathize with his mistakes, wheras Locke is just horrifically willful.

I do need to rewatch it (December 8!!!), but I think Jack lost a whole lot of steam in S5. Maybe not as much as Sun, but his arc of "we have to go back" which was based pretty much entirely on his irrational reaction to Locke claiming to have seen Christian, followed by just shoving his hands in his pockets and waiting until a crackpot scheme was placed at his feet didn't do much for him. I hope S6 gives everyone something more meaningful to do before it's all over.

[Richard Was Here]

^ Yeah, I agree that Jack becomes less interesting later on. About all I can remember about him from seasons 4 and 5 is constant screaming matches with Kate.

Which got on my nerves.

But I will say this for him - and it's very important in terms of him being 'the leader': at least the vast majority of the time, he had EVERYONE's best interests at heart - not just his own.

Locke, in truth, despite all of his pontificating, never really cared about anyone but himself. His actions speak to that over and over and over and over throughout the series.

[Dr. Chameleon]

Originally Posted by Richard Was Here

But I will say this for him - and it's very important in terms of him being 'the leader': at least the vast majority of the time, he had EVERYONE's best interests at heart - not just his own.

I think so, but it's pretty painful watching his determination at the end of S3 now, knowing how bringing the freighter folk to the island is going to turn out. I really hate it when Ben and Locke, of all people, turn out to be right. Kinda makes me fear for where the show is headed...

[Richard Was Here]

^ Well, I'm not sure bringing the freighter folk to the island was necessarily a bad thing. True enough Kreamy and his merry band were scary dudes....but the freighter gave the Losties alot of good things too - Daniel Faraday and Miles, for two (I'd include Charlotte, but she really didn't have a chance to contribute anything to the group before she died).

Also, the freighter gave Desmond his phone reunion with Penny...which I think gave him renewed hope and vigor toward getting off the island. That it wasn't a snow globe with no escape after all.

Also, I think the freighter sort of indirectly led to the Ben/Widmore meetup later on...and that needed to happen.

I think Daniel in particular added some critical pieces to the puzzle later on....so the freighter wasn't all bad. I guess you could say that when it comes to the freighter, I take a 'glass half full' sort of approach.

[Dr. Chameleon]

True about Penny/Desmond, but it also resulted in the deaths of Alex, Danielle, Karl, possibly Claire, a bunch of 815 redshirts, and in a roundabout way Charlotte and Daniel, too. I suppose everyone has to die eventually...

[Richard Was Here]

Well, I don't believe Claire is really dead. I don't believe they would kill off a major character off-screen. It's just not done.

I agree with you about Alex, Danielle and Karl, however. Kreamy does kill them - you are right about that. In truth, I'd sort of semi-forgotten about that. But of course you are right.

Of course, Ben sort of has to take some of the responsibility for Alex's death too, though. They might have killed her anyway, but we will never know what would have happened if Ben had not called their bluff. And shocking as Alex's death was, I have to admit that I was glad to see Ben suffer as a consequence of his decisions for a change.

As for the redshirts...well, the only purpose of redshirts on a show is to die. If they exist, they will die. If watching 700+ episodes of Star Trek has taught me anything, it has taught me that.

Think if the redshirts like 'Desmond flashes'.....you know they are going to die no matter what. The only question is how.

[Dr. Chameleon]

Originally Posted by Richard Was Here

Well, I don't believe Claire is really dead. I don't believe they would kill off a major character off-screen. It's just not done.

I won't belabor that point, but I'll agree to disagree.

700+ episodes!?!? Well, I guess I've seen over 354 of them...yikes.