1x12 Whatever The Case May Be

[Asclepeos]

I think it was more like "we need a Kate-centric and we need guns, but don't give it all away" and this is what came out. Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

[whiskeyJim]

Actually, this episode ties in to the later one where Kate inspires Sun to drug her husband so he gets sick. Doing so almost imperils the whole rescue attempt when it backfires and Michael gets sick.

Secret Kate plans going bad at potentially great cost to everyone, so she can get her way. Huge self preservation. Is it good or bad? Well, it certainly doesn't pay to be her friend in those situations, as her childhood friend and fellow bank conspirators can attest.

It's only implied, but in watching the series, Jack often senses reasons not to trust Kate. He doesn't know the details of her past, but he keeps a certain distance, and he is particularly sensitive (in all the LOST episodes) for evidence that can't trust her. It's definitely an ongoing theme in their relationship. The ironic thing is that he really can't if her past is any indication.

This episode is a decent foreshadow of the scene with Kate and Jack when Michael is drugged. Jack actually has it right. He suspects Kate. Kate acts all hurt that Jack would not trust her. But he's right. He understands her better than she understands herself in many ways.

[MM0602]

Originally Posted by whiskeyJim

It's only implied, but in watching the series, Jack often senses reasons not to trust Kate. He doesn't know the details of her past, but he keeps a certain distance, and he is particularly sensitive (in all the LOST episodes) for evidence that can't trust her. It's definitely an ongoing theme in their relationship. The ironic thing is that he really can't if her past is any indication.

This is really true. I feel like after the three years off island, Kate has changed and though she may not be perfect, she's made progress and become less selfish, something that really showed when she left Aaron with Carole. Jack and Kate aren't my favourites but I think it'd be nice for them to have their happy ending, without all the trust issues.

[waggins]

This episode is saved only by the beautiful opening scene, and Hurley and Michael laughing at Sawyer.

I rewatched this knowing the whole time what's in the deposit box/case and got more and more pissed at Kate. what a dirty lying scumbag b****. all that BS and drama for a stupid plane? She loved him? that's supposed to make Jack ok with her lying to him? and that whiny face she has the whole episode just made me think she was acting like a 12-year old who needs a good thrashing for being such a brat. Are we supposed to feel sorry for her? because I don't. I think she's just proven how untrustworthy she is.

one note, though:

Jack continues to question Kate's past, whether he can trust her, why she keeps running, etc. He even says 'What did you do, Kate?' (referring to the marshal escorting her in handcuffs and the mugshot)

thing is, Jack declined when Kate offered to tell him her story. I find it smug and condescending to let someone off the hook as far as your own personal judgement of them, and then to continually poke and prod and bring up the thing for which you have pardoned them. If you're gonna let it go, then you truly have to let it go. otherwise, you look like a douchenozzle.

[whiskeyJim]

Originally Posted by waggins

Jack continues to question Kate's past, whether he can trust her, why she keeps running, etc. He even says 'What did you do, Kate?' (referring to the marshal escorting her in handcuffs and the mugshot)

thing is, Jack declined when Kate offered to tell him her story. I find it smug and condescending to let someone off the hook as far as your own personal judgement of them, and then to continually poke and prod and bring up the thing for which you have pardoned them. If you're gonna let it go, then you truly have to let it go. otherwise, you look like a douchenozzle.

I noticed that also, until I realized Jack has no way of knowing that he is actually asking her to tell him about her criminal past. Trust is everything. And it's the principal barrier between Jack and Kate. It's ironic that when they return to the mainland, he not only finds out, he saves her from her trial, since without him she would go to jail. So it didn't matter one way or another. Then when they got engaged, there she was again, keeping secrets and destroying his trust.

[Mrs.locke]

One thing I did get from this episode is that I think Kate will definitely end up with Sawyer, they go so much better together...criminal history, selfishness, etc. Jack is just too much of a Mr. Do Right to end up with Kate.

[DharmaVan]

OK, moving beyond the Kate-bashing, here's some of the things I noticed in this episode:

1. The tide rising suddenly, strangely - the island is MOVING - super cool!
2. Shannon to Boone regarding spending time with Locke she says, "Is he your new boyfriend?" She's teasing him just like she did during the airport scene in Exposé when she said, "If you quit flirting with random guys, maybe you could actually get on the plane." Is she teasing or implying Boone is gay/bi? It was never shown to be the case.
3. I like the parallel between the Halliburton case and the swan hatch, i.e., the need to open it with brute force requiring something like their axe (which just so happens to be what Boone is carrying out to the hatch at that very moment).
4. I believe this is the very first occurrence of Sawyers famous line, "Son of a bitch!"

[ZEITGEIZT]

Didn't like this episode except for the few minutes of dialogue between Rose and Charlie. Especially the end when Charlie is finally able to cry. It's a fine line between faith and denial....

[Lorite]

Originally Posted by DharmaVan

The tide rising suddenly, strangely - the island is MOVING - super cool![/list]

I recall/reading hearing somewhere that the producers had to do this because the production crews needed to get the plane wreckage off of the beach in Hawaii.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Originally Posted by Lorite

How so? With the introduction of the guns? The next several episodes (and the previous few) do much more to carry the show forward then this does. Look at Hearts and Minds with Boone, Locke and the hatch, or Special with the idea of the Raft...

I mean, the guns are important, but say in Homecoming, when they really come to figure into things, you could have had Charlie hacking at Ethan with the axe or something...the guns weren't an absolute necessity...

I'm just saying, I don't follow your point clearly...it could be made about any episode (except maybe Expose :-)). I guess you could say "They really needed guns" and so they came up with this story to tell it. But I think it was important to overall characterization and plot the lengths which Kate will go to manipulate people to get her way (no matter how futile or silly her goal may seem).

See, I was fine with this episode because even when I watched this series through the first time, I nevr expected evry single episode to be a knock-out homerun and I believe that is exactly why the show is so good. Not to get off-topic here but this is where The X-Files went wrong and why it fell apart (aside from not having an end date in sight like Lost does): the idea that evry episode had to wow the audience caused the plot, continuity and mythology of the show to become so muddled and confusing that it became clear that Chris Carter and Co. had no idea what they were doing. I mean, did you see the series finale? It was horrible. *gets back on topic* This is only the first of many episodes (particularly episodes in Season 2) that are mainly designed to set something up for a future episode. As many have already pointed out, the introduction of more guns in this episode has a ripple effect through the rest of this season and some of Season 2.

As for Kate, I do agree that this is one of her weaker episodes and the reveal of the toy plane was a bit confounding. However, I feel it's necessary to point out that Kate wasn't actively looking for the Halliburton case. Up until Sawyer and she stumbled across it, I believe Kate had assumed the case was lost due to the crash nevr to be recovered. The loss of that memento (both after the crash and before the bank robbery) and all it meant must have weighed heavily on Kate, so I can understand her resolve to get it back at any cost. Kate, as Maggie, didn't plan for the robbery to end the way it did, that was Jason's fault. I agree her plan to rob the bank was incredibly selfish but she had a much different outcome in mind.

One thing I was trying to remember is if when I watched the episode for the vry first time, did I fall for Kate as an innocent victim during the first flashback? Does anyone remember if they fell for this the first time?

Three things I liked about this episode:
- Kate's apple bag: I loved how the shoulder strap was made from a seatbelt from the plane. I know there are over-the-shoulder bags like this out there and I've always wanted one.
-Michael's exchange with Sawyer about the case and Hurley's contribution.
-Kate getting the best of Sawyer with another headbutt as he's chiding her about missing the first time. Not only was this humorous but it also gave a glimpse to how Sawyer's bravado can be used against him, which we see later on (can't think of any specific examples but I know they're there)

Did anyone else find it odd that Shannon doesn't mention Finding Nemo by its name? At first, I figured that the writers couldn't due to copyright or whatevr but then I remembered that Disney owns both Pixar (well, at the time they did) and ABC. I'm not placing any inflated importance on this with the larger mythology of the show and would guess that, if anything, it only speaks to Shannon's character and apathy. It's only after watching this for the third time that I was struck with this question.