1x11 All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues

[Jack Shephard's twin]

I usually read these threads while watching the episode, but last night I watched the episode and decided to get through the thread today, but it took long enough, some excellent theories and views in here.

Just going to throw a question out here, and it may be totally meaningless, or it might catch something with you, but here goes. Maybe in this episode, we see the first REAL chain of events that leads to everything that happens in the whole five years we've been watching the show. It happens when Locke throws Boone the torch, and Boone drops it. Now I may be wrong, but if Boone never drops it, or Locke never throws it, then it's probably safe to say they never find the hatch, which leads to Desmond dying, which in turn further down the line leads to Charlie dying earlier than he should, the failsafe key getting turned, and plenty of other stuff, and that's only by season 3.

Maybe this episode will always be looked back on as the one which started the whole LOST ball rolling, or maybe I'm looking to much into this particular episode?! . Thoughts?

[JZ5]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard's twin

I usually read these threads while watching the episode, but last night I watched the episode and decided to get through the thread today, but it took long enough, some excellent theories and views in here.

Just going to throw a question out here, and it may be totally meaningless, or it might catch something with you, but here goes. Maybe in this episode, we see the first REAL chain of events that leads to everything that happens in the whole five years we've been watching the show. It happens when Locke throws Boone the torch, and Boone drops it. Now I may be wrong, but if Boone never drops it, or Locke never throws it, then it's probably safe to say they never find the hatch, which leads to Desmond dying, which in turn further down the line leads to Charlie dying earlier than he should, the failsafe key getting turned, and plenty of other stuff, and that's only by season 3.

Maybe this episode will always be looked back on as the one which started the whole LOST ball rolling, or maybe I'm looking to much into this particular episode?! . Thoughts?

I have to say that I thought the same thing. I don't know if it's the FIRST thing, but I would definitely agree that Locke throwing the flashlight and it hitting the Hatch door was totally planned. Locke KNEW it was there...at least that's how it would seem considering all that we know now.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard's twin

Maybe this episode will always be looked back on as the one which started the whole LOST ball rolling, or maybe I'm looking to much into this particular episode?! . Thoughts?

I do agree that Boone dropping the torch and that loud clunk is perhaps the first pivotal moment of what came of the following seasons of Lost. However, for me, what "started the whole LOST ball rolling" was the rustling of ol' Smokey in the forest in the pilot episode. Right away, that's what separated this show from a dramatic version of Gilligan's Island.

Originally Posted by JZ5

I have to say that I thought the same thing. I don't know if it's the FIRST thing, but I would definitely agree that Locke throwing the flashlight and it hitting the Hatch door was totally planned. Locke KNEW it was there...at least that's how it would seem considering all that we know now.

I disagree that Locke knew what was there. First of all, if he did know The Swan Station was there, why not just go through the other entrance? I take it that you're implying that with the time travel in S5, Locke knew about the island prior to the Oceanic 815 crash. If so, Miles summed it up correctly when he explained to Hurley that this was their present, so Locke would not have known any more than Boone did about the Hatch when that fateful flashlight fell.

[whiskeyJim]

That's a cool observation about Boone dropping the torch, but the hatch would have found anyway.

Something (Smokey?) was showing Locke where to look. Remember the dream where Locke sees the plane. When they get there, Locke is having a crisis of faith (because he can't get in the hatch) and is losing his ability to use his legs because of it.

Boone and Locke think they were led to the plane. THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO FIND THE PEARL. Maybe that's why Boone died; he was trying to get rescued (the plane didn't move until he fooled with the radio) rather than looking around there. Later, Ecko was drawn up onto the cliff so he could see the question mark and find the Pearl. But I'm convinced Boone and Locke should have found it.

Who knows why they couldn't find the Swan door. Not as much fun I guess.

[Beatrice828]

Ok, so remember that scene in Claire's nightmare where she sees Locke and he has one black eye and one white eye?

Yea, when I was rewatching this episode it was all I could think about while watching Christian plead his case to Jack. One half of his face is in bright lighting and one half of his face is in heavy shadow.

I don't have any great insight about what that means in a larger sense, but I thought the similarity between the characters was interesting and I admired how they hint it so beautifully in a visual sense.

[Not Afraid to Fly Anymore]

I read the whole forum but didn't see anything on this - hopefully it's original!

Did anyone else notice a parallel between how Christian raised Jack and how Elouise raised Daniel? This episode really made a connection apparent to me. Thoughts?

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid to Fly Anymore

Did anyone else notice a parallel between how Christian raised Jack and how Elouise raised Daniel? This episode really made a connection apparent to me. Thoughts?

Not a bad thought but I think it'll only work if we find out in S6 that Christian had a greater connection to the island beyond being carted there in a coffin and, possibly, that he was grooming Jack for his arrival the same way Eloise was with Faraday. Otherwise (and the way I see it now), Christian was just imparting his wisdom and life philosophy on his son the same way any parent would do with their child. Eloise had a pretty good idea even before Daniel's birth (but after his death, heh) what her son's life would be like and focused all her efforts on raising him to fulfill that destiny, if you want to call it that.

[eidolon]

"I'm just going to read the comments," I said. "Not going to even register," I said. "I'm not *that* bad of a fan-geek," I tell myself.

Yeah, that worked out real well.

Omigod. The first time through I watched LOST in an orgy of 18-hour days, one after another. So this -- my first rewatch -- is almost like watching it for the first time. After every episode I've been coming to these forums to see all the things that I *still* managed to miss. And boy, do you guys have a LOT of stuff I miss. (Props to the poster who pointed out the Charlie-Christ analogy in this episode. Wow - I can't believe I missed that when it seems so obvious now!)

I haven't posted on the previous eps, but this one was enough to make me (sigh) register. 'Cause I can't keep my mouth shut.

So:

1) I love how Kate says the safest place for Boone is with Locke. Yeah, no irony there, huh?

2) I missed the fact that Walt, who hadn't known backgammon, has apparently played it enough now to become quite proficient. And definitely hints of his abilities in his "lucky" throws

3) I don't think Locke was ever that interested in finding Claire and Charlie. The island told him "go" and he went. Claire and Charlie seemed to be almost an excuse, rather than a reason.

4) I still don't think Locke is Flocke at this point. Yet ... yet... during this rewatch, I'm realizing, "Man, this guy was a lot creepier and a lot more agenda-driven than I realized the first time through." The first time, I just thought, "Wow, here's a Walter Mitty getting to live the dream." But now, I think he was much more heavily influenced (by the island? Esau?) than I noticed the first time through. And a lot colder than I was ever willing to admit before. I liked him a LOT the first time through. Now ... I'm not so sure.

5) And while I know it's for symbolic reasons for Jack continuing to pursue Claire and Charlie after he was told to turn back ... I have to laugh because I still see it as: no matter how much status a guy has in real life, they all really want to be the tracking-hunting Rambo. Of course he wasn't going to turn back to be "just" a doctor -- he wanted to be cool, like Locke.

Anyway, thanks guys for the fabulous forums!

[Jjade]

This is awesome:

WALT: There could be lots of other people on the island.

SAWYER: So a tribe of evil natives planted a ringer in the camp to kidnap a pregnant girl and a reject from VH-1 has-beens. Yeah, fiendishly clever. And why am I getting the evening news from a 6 year old.


"a tribe of evil natives"