1x11 All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues

[Lorite]

I think these are fantastic points W-Jim. Regarding Jack, after this episode I really really liked his character, though things do unravel later on and my feelings towards him have certainly changed much, but I've defended him much throughout the series.

What I think this episode does is sow seeds for some of the problems that crop up later for Jack. But in a deeper sense (and this is something of what you make in your second point), Jack is a bit crazy in his determination sometimes and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Most rational pragmatists would have given up the fight probably either trying to find Charlie/Claire or in trying to resuscitate Charlie.

Jack IS a highly principled character, BUT I think his principle lies within satiating his CONSCIENCE and not anything much higher or noble. It's why his despair is so real after he leaves the island. He's desperate to get back and help everyone because he feels so deeply in his conscience that he made a terrible mistake. It destroys him inside. I think the events in White Rabbit, both flashback and island, point to this about him.

[Anfield Fox]

Originally Posted by Lorite

Jack IS a highly principled character, BUT I think his principle lies within satiating his CONSCIENCE and not anything much higher or noble. It's why his despair is so real after he leaves the island. He's desperate to get back and help everyone because he feels so deeply in his conscience that he made a terrible mistake. It destroys him inside. I think the events in White Rabbit, both flashback and island, point to this about him.

Wow what a great paragraph. Agree 100%.

[Lost Fan 4815162342]

A lot of that flashback didn't make a lot of sense to me and that's why I think it worked well for this story.

For Jack to barge in on another surgery and take over would have been an incident and infraction that would have certainly crept in the convo by the investigating hospital officials, if not amongst each other, then outrightly in the report as a questionable action or discussion point because that doesn't fit with my understanding of surgical protocol. Granted Jack was right but just doing that would have gotten the nurse put on probation most likely and raised Jack's profile as possible troublemaker or at least someone with poor decision skills. Much as hospitals want to help patients, they don't like disruption in the organizationsl structure (some for good reasons and others not). So it was noble act by Jack on one level, but it was also done with poor judgment, much like —

— Jack's pursuit of Claire. He's totally off the rez here. He's not thinking clearly. Locke's point was dead on. The group did not need to risk its own doctor, but Jack had that crazed look in his eyes that told you this guy's "drunk" and out of control. "Addictive" (or otherwise dysfunctional) personalities don't always need substances to abuse. They can use situations or other people.

So while it was overall a good outcome in that Jack saved Charlie's life, it was, like the flashback surgery, handled poorly. It's apropos that it happened with a rainy, muddy scene. It's really a good look inside Jack's personality, and why he's not yet suited to be the leader.

[Lorite]

Right on. I don't know much about hospital protocol (except from early seasons of ER) but that seems to make a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Lost Fan 4815162342

It's really a good look inside Jack's personality, and why he's not yet suited to be the leader.

I'm drawn back to Sawyer's damning criticism of Jack's leadership style after Jack comes back to the island in 1977. Was he EVER a good leader!? Jack was the de facto leader until he left, so my question is moot. But it's interesting to see the seeds sown right at the beginning. I LOVE this episode! But I generally love all of Jack's episodes; he's always SO conflicted!

[hyperchord24]

During the whole rewatch, I'm really getting the whole theme of Jack not being able to let go. Then I think to myself, that's exactly what he's doing in the season 5 finale. He can't let go of the fact that all these people died in flight 815 and the turmoil that the island caused and wants to "erase" all that by following Faraday's plan. Everyone's telling him to let it go, but he doesn't want to. I really want to say, well, when ever he can't let things go, it blows up in his face. That this whoile theme of "letting it go" is foreshadowing for Jack's involvement in causing the incident. But after seeing him resusitate Charlie, I'm not so sure.

[Lorite]

I definitely see what your saying. Sometimes Jack's persistence pays off (i.e. saving Charlie), but sometimes (probably most of the time) is results in crazy nonsense (i.e. setting off a nuke, allowing the freighter folks to come).

He makes a promise to himself (say: Get everyone off the island) and he breaks his back trying to get it done, and after a while really has no clear answer for WHY it's necessary, just that he MUST do it because he said he would.

[MM0602]

This had lots of good character moments. Boone starting to follow Locke, Michael being a bad daddy and leaving Walt again, Sayid and Sawyer starting to talk to each other... and of course the Charlie fake death. I didn't remember but after this and White Rabbit, apparently Jack centric episodes used to be really good

[hailey]

is there anyone on lost who DOESNT have daddy issues?
jack, kate, locke, sun, jin, walt, aaron, claire, miles, penny, hurley, sawyer.... im sure the list goes on.
im actually only half way through the episode, but i just had to comment.

[hailey]

kate says boone is safest with locke...and flash to them finding the hatch. wonderful.

thank you jack for not giving up on charlie....that was a seriously tense moment. im not always kates #1 fan, but the way she acted and looked in this scene made me want to hug her. this was a very well acted scene....
its funny to watch these first episodes..knowing what we know now...i mean...evil ethan?? we were there for his birth....crazy.

flashbacks make me think, we were friggin time travellers way before the losties. haha

[Citic]

Originally Posted by Lost Fan 4815162342

A lot of that flashback didn't make a lot of sense to me and that's why I think it worked well for this story.

For Jack to barge in on another surgery and take over would have been an incident and infraction that would have certainly crept in the convo by the investigating hospital officials, if not amongst each other, then outrightly in the report as a questionable action or discussion point because that doesn't fit with my understanding of surgical protocol. Granted Jack was right but just doing that would have gotten the nurse put on probation most likely and raised Jack's profile as possible troublemaker or at least someone with poor decision skills. Much as hospitals want to help patients, they don't like disruption in the organizationsl structure (some for good reasons and others not). So it was noble act by Jack on one level, but it was also done with poor judgment, much like —

— Jack's pursuit of Claire. He's totally off the rez here. He's not thinking clearly. Locke's point was dead on. The group did not need to risk its own doctor, but Jack had that crazed look in his eyes that told you this guy's "drunk" and out of control. "Addictive" (or otherwise dysfunctional) personalities don't always need substances to abuse. They can use situations or other people.
So while it was overall a good outcome in that Jack saved Charlie's life, it was, like the flashback surgery, handled poorly. It's apropos that it happened with a rainy, muddy scene. It's really a good look inside Jack's personality, and why he's not yet suited to be the leader.

But thats what makes jack jack.. his devotion and dedication to his people.. also the fact that he knows he made a mistake, he wants to fix it and make it right..
Get'em jack